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Old 10-08-2004, 02:35 AM   #1
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Experimentation Formula

The complete formula for experimentation is hidden, but the developers have given us a small clue. Namely the failure rate. Those funny red numbers you get when your skill is still fairly low or when you try to experiment too many points at the same time.

Calculating from the failure rate the formula for the success rate seems to be:
(50 + (Average_MA - 500)/40 + Experiment_Skill - 5*Points_Used) / 100
Average_MA is the MA of the resources weighted by relative quantity just like the experiment qualities. Points_Used is how many points you spend at once. (If you try to spend points in multiple lines at once, you get penalized pretty badly and the formula changes a bit) With 75% chance, the red failure bar will show 25%. At 100% or above chance, the red bar is no longer visible.

If you have 55 in skill, you get 100% with MA 500. At 100 skill you have 145% with MA 500. This means you can only test out the formula at a fairly low skill while the red bar is still there.

Once you get 100% you can no longer get any failures, except criticals. But the system considers even marginally successful as a success. As you get higher above 100% the worst type of successes are gradually no longer possible. I believe that if your success rate is high enough, you can't get below great success either.

But there are two parts affecting the experiment result and the other one is the experiment roll. The roll is basically a random number which is added to your success rate to give the final result. But the roll has special cases. Like RPGs where a roll of 1 or 20 on d20 will always hit or miss regardless of your base chance. So if the roll is below a certain number, it will force a critical failure, if it's above another number, it will force an amazing success. This ensures you can get amazing with almost no skill and that you can always get a critical. Fortunately things which gives bonus to your rolls are applied before checking for the special cases. Which is why you then get less critical and more amazing results. High enough bonus might theoretically prevent any criticals at all.

This means that once you are above 100% (no red bar) you will only get failures from the roll and not from your skill. So things which affects the roll are more important to avoid failures. Like being in a research city or drinking Bespin Port. Both the success rate and the roll matters for getting more amazing successes, but for being able to use more points at once, probably only the skill matters. And there is a possibilty that there is a cap on your skill in this formula. But then you can't use the failure bar to test it out since your skill is too high to even get a red line. A force sensitive master crafter with +25 clothing would have a mean success rate without a cap.

The MA is the surprise factor. Having 100 in MA will be just like losing 10 skill points, while 900 in MA is a 10 point bonus. Unfortunately this MA is considered zero if none of the resources have MA effectively giving a -12.5 skill penalty. Which is not very nice towards Chefs and partially Doctors....

I strongly suspected Complexity to affect the chance, since it rises as you experiment. But it doesn't affect the chance at all. Also testing with various levels of crafting stations from public to 40+, there is no difference either. But both of them may affect the roll instead. The only way to find out would be to do tons of experiments with the same materials and use statistics. I remember an old post from someone who did this testing, but can't seem to find it again. Anyone with a link ?

And being in a research city doesn't affect the success formula either. But that is documented as affecting only the roll, so no surprise there. I have seen noticably better results from rolls in a research city than outside, but haven't done any tests on stations or complexity.

I never got into the holo grind and I avoid Dathomir if I can. So could any force sensitive crafter test if it affects your chance ? Novice Medic and Liquid Suspension would be an easy test, since there is no MA to consider. With Novice Medic only, the red failure bar will normally show 57%. (100 - (50 + -12.5 + 10 - 5) = 57.5 which is then truncated to 57) If the force affects it, then you should get lower than 57%.


Lunariel & Luno - Tempest
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Old 10-08-2004, 08:19 AM   #2
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Fantastic work on sleuthing out another crafting mystery!

If I may ask, what do you do for a living?
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Old 10-08-2004, 10:33 AM   #3
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Wow, great stuff!

Question: since +assembly skill mods seem to increase the number of amazings, do you think this means they are adding to the roll?
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Old 10-08-2004, 02:53 PM   #4
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Lunariel is a distant cousin of Sherlock Holmes, and fights amorphous code and mysterious rules for a living.
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Old 10-08-2004, 03:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkDuster
If I may ask, what do you do for a living?


If Lunariel figured all that out by him/her self, then I don't think there's much of a life there

Now, on to figure out the mystery of my missing Dr Pepper's from the break room fridge! To the batcave!
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Old 10-08-2004, 08:20 PM   #6
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Awesome post, I mean REALLY awesome.

I just want to clarify for anyone else who may not get it (and it just may be my overworked, caffeine high-ed, lack of sleep-ed brain that didn't get it), but MA is Malleability right? Took me a few to figure that out, if I'm even correct.

Thanks for the great insights!
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Old 10-09-2004, 12:30 AM   #7
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Yes MA is malleability.
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Old 10-09-2004, 02:02 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aderyn
Yes MA is malleability.


Tank yuo! wery much!
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Old 10-09-2004, 06:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox-
Question: since +assembly skill mods seem to increase the number of amazings, do you think this means they are adding to the roll?
The assembly result has no effect on this formula. It's main purpose besides providing failures, is to set the initial percentage you get when experimenting. However there is no difference between great and amazing assemblies on the initial percentage. If an amazing assembly success matters at all, it has to affect the experiment roll. So it's logical to assume it affects the roll, unless they completely forgot to reward amazing assemblies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkunkMaster
If I may ask, what do you do for a living?
You may ask, but I won't tell. I prefer to keep RL private.


Lunariel
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Old 10-09-2004, 07:48 PM   #10
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Great work

Only question left is: whats then with schematics that need resource that have no MA at all ? (like several BE-schematics) ... <curious>
Maybe one day i take the time to find it out. Not sure how many weeks that will take ... ,)

Best
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Old 10-09-2004, 08:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Belisama
Only question left is: whats then with schematics that need resource that have no MA at all ? (like several BE-schematics) ... <curious>
Then it sets the MA in the formula to 0.
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Old 10-10-2004, 12:57 AM   #12
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Well, for armor at least, someone did a test that showed an increase in amazing successes during experimentation when they were wearing a suit with +25 armor assembly. Not just more amazing successes during assembly (which I agree seem to be pretty pointless). I can find their link on the soe forum if you're interested.
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Old 10-10-2004, 01:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ox-
Well, for armor at least, someone did a test that showed an increase in amazing successes during experimentation when they were wearing a suit with +25 armor assembly. Not just more amazing successes during assembly (which I agree seem to be pretty pointless). I can find their link on the soe forum if you're interested.
I believe the assembly part is a mirror image of the experimentation part. There's a formula for base chance for the assembly and an assembly roll. Since there are no clues there like the failure rate, it's much harder to find the formula. I suspect the base chance formula is based upon assembly skill, a resource stat and maybe the complexity. So far I don't think MA is used for assemblies, possibly OQ or maybe SR/UT.

Personally I find it a bit illogical that your assembly skill directly affects the experimentation roll. It's far more likely that it affects it indirectly by the assembly result. Either the assembly result gives a scaled bonus to experimentation roll for all types of assembly results or only for amazing assemblies. Like I mentioned above, amazing assemblies doesn't seem to do anything else, so my guess is on the second option.

Please, I would love to see that link if you can find it.
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Old 10-10-2004, 07:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lunariel
Then it sets the MA in the formula to 0.


That's unfair
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