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Guide To Reverse Engineering   [ Edited ]
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TomoRainer
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Reverse Engineering's a bit of a complex process, one that tends to raise a lot of questions here, and while most of this information can be found in the shipwright FAQ and elsewhere on the forum, I'm not sure it's all combined in one place. As such, I've tried to collect my experience as a shipwright and a pilot here.

Reverse Engineering: The Basics

Reverse Engineering (REing from here on out) is the process of combining multiple loot components to create a single, superior component. To RE an item, you'll first need a number of components equal to their RE level: so 6 level 6 engines, 4 level 4 capacitors, 10 level 10 blasters, etc. There are a number of loot items whose certification level differs from their RE level, so make sure that, when assembling your parts, you're sure all the RE levels match. (Notable items where the cert and RE levels differ: a level 10 capacitor with RE level 5; level 4 cap with RE level 5; level 4 engine with RE level 2; level 10 droid interfaces with level 3 or 1 RE; level 7 DI with level 5 or 3 or 1 RE. There are plenty of others.) In early beta, it was necessary for all your loot items to have identical names as well (so you would need 3 "Novaldex Sarlacc S3" level 3 capacitors, for instance), but this is no longer the case. The only thing that matters now is that the RE level of each part is the same.

Shipwrights: Skills And Tools Needed To RE

Pilots don't need to worry about how to physically combine the parts, but if you're a shipwright, the process is simple: build a Component Analysis Tool, drop the parts you wish to RE into the tool, and select the Analyze Component option from the radial menu. Resource quality won't matter in the REing results, all it does is give you more charges on the tool.

Novice shipwright will give you the ability to RE all level 1 components. With each box you train, you will get +2 levels to your REing ability for that line of components. The first line of boxes, Spaceframe Engineering, allows you to RE armor; the next, Propulsion Technology, allows engines and boosters; Core Systems is capacitors, droid interfaces, and reactors; and Defense Systems is weapons and shields. So if you have one box of Defenses, you'll be able to RE up to level 3 weapons and shields, two boxes will grant you up to level 5, etc. Master shipwright gives +1 to all REing stats, for a total of +10 to all components, allowing you to RE up through the highest level of loot available in the game.

Shipwright skills won't affect the outcome in any way, all they do is determine how high a level of loot you can RE. A novice shipwright will RE the level 1 parts he can handle every bit as well as a master.

An Example Of An RE Job

The greatest benefit to REing is that, when combining the parts, the best stat from each category will be used in the final product. With carefully selected loot, this can result in some remarkable components. Let's say you're REing 2 level 2 capacitors, Cap A and Cap B:

Capacitor A, a level 2 capacitor, has the following stats:
Mass: 1200.0
Reactor Drain: 1100.0
Recharge Rate: 20.0
Stored Energy: 900.0

Capacitor B, a level 2 capacitor:
Mass: 1800.0
Reactor Drain: 800.0
Recharge Rate: 35.0
Stored Energy: 600.0

The end product will take the best available stat from the RE'd components, so here it will use the mass (1200) and stored energy (900) from Cap A and the reactor drain (800) and recharge (35) from Cap B as the basis for a final product, Capacitor C, with the following stats:

Mass: 1200
Reactor Drain: 800
Recharge Rate: 35
Stored Energy: 900

REing Bonuses

These stats are not yet accurate, however, as REing also adds a percentage-based bonus to the final product which will boost each stat by a number determined by the RE level of the components. This bonus is as follows:

Level 1 components: +1%
2-3: 2%
4-5: 3%
6-7: 4%
8-9: 5%
10: 6%

The REing bonus will always improve a stat as appropriate--i.e., it will decrease mass by the given percent, increase damage, increase recharge rates, decrease command times on droid interfaces, etc. (The one exception to this is that the reactor drain stat doesn't get the % bonus. It will give you the lowest drain among the assembled parts, and then claim to decrease it by the given %, but I've tested this out and it's a bug in the system. UPDATE: This bug has been fixed as of publish 24.) So, in the example above, Capacitor C's final stats will be as follows:

Mass: 1176 (1200*0.98)
Reactor Drain: 784 (800*0.98)
Recharge Rate: 35.7 (35*1.02)
Stored Energy: 918 (900*1.02)

(You'll note the formula for stats that see their numbers reduced--mass, energy drain, droid command speed, refire, etc.--goes as follows: "best stat*(100% - bonus %)" This is slightly different from how I had it listed earlier.)

The bonuses on a level 2 item may seem slight, but once you're REing high-level stuff, it will really start to add up for some significant additions to your components.

This is the underlying theory of REing and the bare essentials of what a pilot would need to know. The next post will get into more specifics and complex situations which could be valuable for any serious REer, shipwright or pilot.

Message Edited by TomoRainer on 10-23-2005 02:25 AM





Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent

02-27-2005 02:17 PM  

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Re: Guide To Reverse Engineering   [ Edited ]
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TomoRainer
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This post will focus on additional complexities of REing. I may well forget certain problems/situations, so there will likely be more segments added as people ask questions, facts occur to me, we get new information, etc. Info on KSE Firesprays can be found at the end of this post.

Naming Your Components:

REing gives you the option to name your final product as you see fit. After you run the analysis, two windows will pop up. The first will show you the final stats and % bonuses. The second will let you enter a permanent name for the new item. You don't have to name the item; if you just hit okay, it will default the name to that of the first item put into the tool. (More on this in the next segment.) This one screen is your only chance to name your item.

However, there is a naming filter that will reject certain characters and words. It would be difficult to find or list everything that's disallowed, but I do know it will not let you use Arabic numerals (1, 2, 8, etc--but Roman numerals are fine), quotation marks, or the names of the games' component manufacturers (Sienar, MandalMotors, etc). It's a good bet profanity won't be let through, though I admittedly haven't tried, and I know that at least some other key Star Wars terms (such as Interceptor, probably things like Jabba and Vader as well) aren't allowed, along with whatever other seemingly arbitrary subjects it's been decided to block. If your name has anything the filter doesn't like, it will be rejected and your component will be given the name of the first item in the tool with no chance to try a second name. UPDATE: This was changed a few publishes ago. You should now be able to try another name if your first one is rejected by the naming filter.

Some pilots and, if you run a big REing business, yourself, may be interested in insuring they get the name they want. If so, here's a trick taught me by Adonis of Starsider: get a level 1 item, RE it, and attempt to give it the name you want for your special component. If it lets the name go through, great, you can use it on that pre-nerf engine or level 10 blaster; if it rejects it, get another level 1 item and try another name. Repeat until you get an acceptable result, then apply it to the item you care about.

Appearance And Weapon Effects:

The main draw of REing is to improve the stats on an item, but you can also use it to change the item's appearance on your ship. Boosters and engines have two different appearances, and when it comes to weapons, there are a dozen or more different looks, both for the weapon itself and for the projectile it fires. When REing, you can influence the appearance of the final product.

This requires knowing what each loot component looks like when placed in or fired from your ship. With boosters, engines, and the physical weapon, this can be done by loading them into your ship and seeing how it looks on the manage screen. With weapon effects--what kind of projectile it fires--you'll have to load in the weapon, launch into space, and fire it a few times to see what comes out.

Once you've done this, it's relatively simple to choose from among all the available graphics: all you have to do is put the item whose graphic you wish to preserve in the tool first. If that QV-5 Disruptor that fires the blue lasers is the effect you want, for instance, make sure the first thing you put in the analyzer is that QV-5.

It's a good idea to have the analyzer tool's window open when you're dragging components inside. Depending on how you have your UI set up, it can be reorganized if the window's closed, and as such the component you put in first may not stay first. If you keep the tool window open at all times, you can insure the first item stays put and gives you the effect you're going for.

Adonis and I have compiled a fairly comprehensive list of loot weapons and their effects. I'll include a link to it in the final post in this series.

A Note On Different Weapon Types:

When it comes to loot weapons, they don't exist. One level 8 gun may be called Koensayer Ion So-And-So while another is called a Borstel Disruptor, but they can still be RE'd together. The game mechanics make no distinction between them, so yes, you can in effect combine an ion cannon with a disruptor to get the ultimate shipwrecking power.

However, as you collect more and more guns, you'll note that the weapons with obscene shield or armor effectiveness don't really exist outside level 1-3 guns. After that, you may hit .650 or even .690 on one stat, but level 4+ guns simply don't have the .8-.9 effectiveness you'll find on a level 2 gun.

The one exception that leaps to mind is a certain type of level 10 gun that tends to drop with both stats around .750 or higher. Needless to say, this can make for a nice RE job.

A Note On Weapon Stats And Rounding:

Some of you may have noticed that certain weapon stats, specifically armor/shield effectiveness and refire rate, are rounded off if you've left them in your ship after logging for a while. A blaster with .698 vs shields, .692 vs armor, and a .329 refire rate after REing will become .700, .690, and .330 once it's used in space, for example. If you know this, you can calculate in advance whether it's really worth it to choose the slightly better item or if you can just go with one that's nearly as good and that, once rounded, will have identical stats--which I know sounds obtuse, but if you really get into REing, it will make a difference at some point.

Say you're REing a set of level 10 guns. You've got a few extras (as any hardcore REer will) and need to decide whether to use the one with the .401 speed or the .402 speed. Clearly, you'd go with the .401 over the .402; after all, with the 6% bonus it will have a .378 speed, whereas the .402 will only come out to .379--but, when rounded, they'll both end up at .380. So if there's any reason NOT to use the .401 gun--if its mass is low enough that it might be good to use in a later RE job, or if it has a firing effect you want to use in another gun--you can use the .402 with no loss in performance.

.xx5 will round up, so a .315 speed gun would round up to .320 eventually. .xx5 stats can be tricky, however, as they will sometimes round down instead, as .xx5 is not entirely accurate--stats can extend four or five places past the decimal, so the .xx5 itself is merely another rounding of a more precise stat we can't see (except during the REing outcome screen).

In fact, the more I learn about this peculiar quality of weapons, the more I see messing with rounding stats as being potentially exploitive, and something I maybe shouldn't post here. However, not knowing how this works can harm you just as much as knowing how to make use of it can help you. (I was so incredibly frustrated when a .265 blaster I made a long while ago mysteriously morphed into a .270 by the next day! This issue is hurting my customers, too, as the guns they're buying aren't the same guns they'll end up owning.) So until we're able to raise the issue with the devs and see if 1) it's working as intended and 2) if not, whether it's something we shouldn't be taking advantage of--in which case I sincerely hope they remove the whole problem ASAP--my best judgment is it's in the best interests of the community to have the information out there. If you could use it to gain potentially imbalancing advantages, I'd change my tune in a hurry, but the differences here are so slight I just don't see the potential for abuse outstripping the damage crafting or REing weapons without this knowledge can create.

If your judgment on the issue differs from mine, that's well and good. I just hate selling my customers guns with .484/.484 vs. armor/shields that'll drop to .480/.480 the next time they log, or crafting a super fast, .265 speed gun that'll raise to .270 if they don't pull their gun out of their ship every single time they quit for the day. I sure don't like fooling around with something that feels a little devious like this, either, but in my opinion, I'm either taking advantage of something that's maybe not supposed to work like this or I'm cheating my customers. Which is a really sucky situation.. but I'd rather know everyone who buys a weapon from me is getting what they paid for than to play it completely safe when the difference seems all but negligible. Ultimately, it's up to you how you handle this information, but I would highly recommend considering the ethics of how you apply it. If it's to make sure your crafted blasters round from .489 to .490 rather than from .484 to .480 once your customers start using them, that seems honest to me. If you're doing it to tweak your RE'd guns, however, that might fall into the exploit category. To put it more simply: don't screw around with this before we know what the story is. Use good judgment.

/dismount high horse

When Do You Know It's Time To RE:

As mentioned in the last segment, most pilots who do a lot of REing don't RE their item as soon as they get enough parts to do so--if they're REing a level 8 reward shield, they don't just slap it together once that 8th level 8 shield drops. They wait and save up more, trying to maximize the recharge rate, the mass, the reactor drain. A pilot crazy and patient enough might wait until he has 80 level 8 shields, then choose the cream of the crop and create the uberest level 8 shield the server has ever seen.

Personally, I'm a little lazy and impatient; I RE an item once it does what I need it to do or once it hits a level I know is good. If I have 33K spare mass on my Krayt and I want that shield NOW, I won't necessarily wait on a lower mass shield, even though I know they're out there. However, if I'm in no rush, or if the RE job involves a piece that it's hard or nigh-impossible to get more of (current reward items being hard, pre-nerf reward engines (for one) being nigh-impossible, say), I will wait a very long time. My first level 8 reward shield RE'd down to 31K mass or so. I'd read a few reports of pilots getting theirs down to 28K, so when I got a second, I resolved not to RE it until I could get it to 28K. It took 25 shields or so--way too many tier 4 duties--but eventually I found one that RE'd down to 27.2K or so. To some people, the extra 3.8K mass isn't worth the time, but to others, it can make an immeasureable difference and be worth weeks of searching.

Of course, now I fly an Interceptor that can't fit either reward shield, but having one down at 27.2K does give me some interesting options if I decide to switch back to an Advanced at some point. And I've heard of people finding shields as low as 25 and even 22K, so it may be time to hunt for another...

Re-Reverse Engineering:

An item may only be RE'd once. After you've RE'd it, it will lose its RE level, preventing you from attempting to do so again.

When Certification And RE Levels Differ:

The certification level of the first component in the tool will be used to determine the final product's cert level. Thanks to Sar-larid for the confirmation. As he notes, you're probably going to want to use the lowest-level cert item for this, as I can't think of a case where you'd want to restrict yourself from using an item at the lowest possible level.

Hitpoints And REing

Yes, REing will take the best available hitpoints from the RE'd items as well, which means that you can use a rare loot/reward item until its HP decay a ways, then RE it to restore its condition to like new. (This seems to be a somewhat popular practice for pre-nerf level 6 engines.)

Personally, I don't think it's worthwhile to wait to RE if you've already assembled the parts you want to use for your final RE job, as a properly RE'd component will be so much better than an un-RE'd one that you'd effectively be crippling yourself to hold off. Besides, even a "fully decayed" component will still have 10 armor and 10 HP, which is just enough to run an Overload 4 program without disabling the component. Granted, it will be disabled once you take the slightest damage past your armor, but who knows, the advantage of an RE'd part may prevent you from taking that damage in the first place.

Odd-Numbered And Even-Numbered Loot

Certain levels of loot just aren't very good. Specifically, odd-numbered engines, boosters, and capacitors will all but never result in parts worth using or REing for anything but attempts to get Firespray disks. On the other hand, even-numbered engines and capacitors have huge advantages over crafted ones and can RE into some great parts, and even-numbered boosters, while unable to reach the same accelerations and top speeds as crafted ones, will generally have a long enough burn time to make them useful (especially in the case of reward boosters).

No other loot follows this pattern, and you'll be able to find useful stuff at any level, even or odd.

KSE Firespray Disks:

For some shipwrights, these are the big draw of REing. Personally I think Firesprays are a major hassle, and as a long-time smuggler I've had a lifetime's worth of experience with apparently random systems and the deviously intricate systems clever players try to impose on them, but much as I'd like to leave out this discussion, I can't neglect it and expect to have a full REing guide.

To get a KSE Firespray, you need a Firespray schematic. To get a Firespray schematic, you need 8 different disk fragments. To get a disk fragment, you need to RE like crazy. It's a random drop and a disk seems to appear from roughly every 100-300 RE jobs, and from what I've gathered, that doesn't mean the number of items input to be RE'd, but the total number output from it--which is to say that you'll need to have 100-300 RE'd components sitting in your inventory before you're likely to have a disk.

Is that to say that you're just as likely to get a disk from REing a level 1 item as you are REing a set of level 10s? Yeah, I think so. But I'm not sure and I don't care quite enough for the massive research that would require. Another theory states that having Kuat parts in your RE jobs increases the chance of a disk drop. I doubt this, but if you happen to think it's true, don't let me dissuade you from testing it out, I don't have much proof besides personal experience and Occam's Razor, and the knowledge you'd provide the community would be much welcomed. It may well be there are hidden patterns to the system that are worth investigating. But these things would take thousands of carefully recorded experiments to provide evidence either way, so until someone does that (or a dev confirms it), I figure it's still up in the air--but safest to assume it's completely random.

Once you have all 8 disks (numbers 1-8--and there seems to be some strange system whereby a given player, or possibly server, gets more of one disk than another; I've had like 15 disks, for instance, and 4 of them have been #5, and I've read about similar cases with other people, but on the other hand the sample size is so small it's hard to tell, and we're right back into arguments akin to the randomness of slicing--but I digress)--once you have all 8 disks, you stick them in your RE tool and analyze away. This will give you a limited-use Firespray schematic, with between 3-6 uses at random. At 50% experimentation, a Firespray will have 210K mass; you might want to shoot for 211.5-213K.

When you get a disk, you'll see a system message right after you hit the "Analyze" option. It'll say "You found an odd item inside one of the components!"

A Brief History Of One Server's Firespray Pricing And A Discussion Of The Ongoing Market:

Starsider's first few (the very first of which being crafted by Ty-Kaz, congrats) went at auction for around 18M. They quickly dropped to 10-12M, stayed there for about two weeks as the early adopters got in on them, then crept down to the 6-8M range, where they've since stayed for approximately three months. I could see our market eventually dipping to and stabilizing in the 4.5-6M range, but personally I'd consider that a little low: you really don't see a set of disks that often unless you're really trying, which takes a lot of time, money, and organization.

I got my first set very early on, but after the change in disk drop rate and the general exodus of loot from the bazaar, I only popped about 12 more disks in 6 months of playing. Granted, I'm only doing a moderate amount of daily REing and letting the disks come as they will, but if you're in a position where you're only going to have 3-6 Firesprays for sale 2-4 times a year, there's no real hurry to get rid of them. My advice on that front would be to err on the high side of the market and be patient. If they're just not selling or the market seems flat, go ahead and drop your prices, but remember how much labor went into this small batch of ships and that this should be reflected in the price. Remember also how long it's likely to be till you get a new batch. Of course, you might lastly remember that not everyone's rich, and that hey it's only money, but with a rare item like this it does seem wiser to start on the high side and slowly go lower than to start low and be sold out in a week.

Prices will differ over time and by server, but the cost in time, resources, and loot lost to REing should keep them at a minimum of roughly 2.5-3M, with their rarity and level of investment pushing them as high as 10-12M. Currently, the server-wide average seems to be around the 6-9M mark, which seems just about right for the labor to me.


Additions, corrections, or questions are welcome.

Message Edited by TomoRainer on 10-23-2005 02:30 AM





Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent

02-27-2005 02:17 PM  

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Re: Guide To Reverse Engineering   [ Edited ]
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TomoRainer
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Links:

Guide To Looted Weapon Effects - Check what style of projectile your loot blasters will fire here. Includes screenshots.

My Favorite Firespray Thread - Lots of flaming, but also a good mix of experiential and theoretical discussion of randomness and the KSE Firespray drop system. The disk drop rate was worsened significantly a couple weeks after this thread, but everything else should still be relevant.

RE Levels of Looted Equipment - Pretty much every loot component listed by type and level

Full Stats on All Shipwright Crafted Items - Already stickied, but useful for comparing your loot and RE'd components to the best a shipwright can make.

Average Loot Stats - A good reference for what levels of looted components tend to be good and where yours compare to the standard.

Loot Stats, High and Low - Incomplete and using small sample sizes in places, but still useful. For Excel owners, there are some spreadsheets down the thread that provide a nice look at stats on some of the most desireable kinds and levels of loot.

More references will be added as they're suggested or written.

Message Edited by TomoRainer on 07-08-2005 10:08 PM





Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent

02-27-2005 02:18 PM  

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Re: Guide To Reverse Engineering   [ Edited ]
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newwb
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/cheer
well done Tomo. Now i hope half the threads started on this board wont be questions like 'what is re?'  or the ever popular 'if i have one level 6 part, what do i need to get it REd?'

Message Edited by newwb on 02-27-2005 02:21 PM

Uzop Inzap-Arkon's Havoc Squadron Ace Pilot (retired)
Smuggler's Alliance ace pilot (retired)
Imperial Inquisition Pilot 4-4-4-3
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02-27-2005 02:20 PM  

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Sar-larid
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"When Certification and RE Levels Differ:

I believe it will use the RE level of the components to determine the final product's cert level, though this may not be the case. It may be that it uses the cert level of the first item put in the RE tool. I'll doublecheck this later."
 
It IS the certification level of the first item entered, just to confirm it.
 
So if it's a level 5 capacitor with RE level 10, use that one first...and if it's the other way, use it last, hehehe.
 
....
 
Excellent guide, btw,

Message Edited by Sar-larid on 02-27-2005 07:51 PM

Delebas

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none shall escape the pursuit of the hunter.
02-27-2005 03:51 PM  

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TomoRainer
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Thank you, and thanks for the confirmation, I've added it in.





Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent

02-27-2005 04:19 PM  

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Duskrider
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dumb newb question (newb to SW that is, as I'm planning on grinding it just to get a firespray without paying the 15 mil people sell them for on Bria) How many 'sprays can be made from a single schematic, just one?
02-28-2005 09:54 PM  

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TomoRainer
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Answer's buried at the end of the guide, so I can see how you'd miss it, but a Firespray schematic will give you 3-6 uses, seemingly at random.





Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent

02-28-2005 10:51 PM  

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Corsican_Ogre
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5* for you nice work

Vrailus Novawolf
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03-01-2005 09:34 PM  

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newwb
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Duskrider wrote:
dumb newb question (newb to SW that is, as I'm planning on grinding it just to get a firespray without paying the 15 mil people sell them for on Bria) How many 'sprays can be made from a single schematic, just one?


if your planning on grinding all the way, it might just be cheaper to buy one, on lowca they go from 5-10 mil, so im sure you could find cheaper than 15 mil on your server

Uzop Inzap-Arkon's Havoc Squadron Ace Pilot (retired)
Smuggler's Alliance ace pilot (retired)
Imperial Inquisition Pilot 4-4-4-3
Master Shipwright
Space Mercenary Corp.
Please drop auction winnings off at my vendor outside Coronet at 303, 29, -5874
03-03-2005 04:26 PM  

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TomoRainer wrote:
Excellent post (yet again) from Tomo. Cross-stickied on the pilot FAQ's. A real credit to both the SW and pilot forums......

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03-03-2005 09:17 PM  

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Thanks Monsofo. I have to say you're doing an excellent job keeping up with and organizing all this stuff, there's a hell of a lot of it.





Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent

03-04-2005 01:28 AM  

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Re: Guide To Reverse Engineering
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MonsofoLexius
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MonsofoLexius
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TomoRainer wrote:
Thanks Monsofo. I have to say you're doing an excellent job keeping up with and organizing all this stuff, there's a hell of a lot of it.


No $%(#)%. you nailed that on the %$#%$ head.

And glad to do it.....

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Thanks bud...now, about the Garment habit of yours. You need an intervention! - Calculus_Entropy /flex - n'Jessi
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03-04-2005 01:33 AM  

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Re: Guide To Reverse Engineering
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TomoRainer
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Just giving this a nudge. I've tracked down and updated a couple of the bugs and more complex issues; and besides, there are always plenty of REing questions.





Smuggling uphill both ways in a Tatooine sandstorm since July '03 | Shipwright to the stars! Help put my virtual kids through college with a new X-Wing today | Ye Olde Pilot Correspondent

03-16-2005 10:52 AM  

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Re: Guide To Reverse Engineering
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IIscandar
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IIscandar

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Thanks for all your efforts !
03-16-2005 11:08 AM  

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