SOE would have been done with all the professions and would've had a smuggling system in place by March or April if the NGE hadn't gotten in the way. Pity.
Most importantly, they've driven away most of the people who really cared, who had idea's and content. That's not even to mention the tireless volunteers who organized the idea's of the masses into well defined profession proposals. While they all had some SWG to build and then rebuild, and then rebuild again, we all had some SWG to play, but that got messed up last November. There's really no sense in replying to this thread, they aren't going to pay anyone to read 70 pages of posts based on what was clearly an inciteful topic, but alas, I felt this needed to be out there, in the ether... one more time.
________________________________
Experience the greatest Star Wars saga ever told -- yours. ________________________________
AphroditeX wrote: If you dont want to (or cant) depend on the input from the boards being the voice of the players of the game as a whole, why not implement some surveys where questions could be answered by the players who actually play the game??
Alot of these people have months left on a years subscription and are only here to flame no matter what is posted. Id rather see feedback from players who play then a discruntled ex player that has time left on his or her account to post flames.
I agree, some people dont even know these forums exist, why not have some type of ingame survey or questionaire, to get more than 20% of the players opinion or so those that dont visit here no about upcoming changes.
LOL, have you ever seen the survey you get when you cancel your account? It's slanted and leaves no room for your opinion...
Cin or do you say Sin~ Master Dancer/Master Bio-Engineer ~
~ Let la lune de miel begin ~
"You know you're loved if you've been *pillow*'ed."
Everyone here, even the people who are spending all of their time on the forums, are all paying customers of SOE. As a measure of good customer service, an emplyoee should never say anything to a customer that even might upset them. I'm not referring to posts about game systems.
Look at it this way. If you went to your local drug store, and the clerk started degrading you, even if in an inteligent manner, even if he was correct, would you ever go back to the store? Would you not complain to the store manager?
This is just another example from your employees of how to NOT provide good customer service.
The only thing that this post from Chris could have ever accomplished was to generate another thread taking up 48 (now) pages of space in your database.
Thanks!
Oh, I see the light
Forums are for discussion - this is an important discussion.
NOT talking about it and NOT discussing things like this is the mistake.
Building this post up into something it isn't, is the mistake.
Well here's an idea then. Take the message ChrisCao wrote and show it to Smedley or somebody higher up. See what they think. Show it to Lucas Arts. See what they think. Any reputable company with good management would almost certainly reprimand every employee involved with this and order them to apologize. Let's see once and for all just exactly who at SOE or Lucas cares. Let Julio or Smedley or whoever is in charge respond to us and assure us that something like this will never happen again. You don't insult your customers and expect them to take it.
I doubt he reading this far ahead. So ill just say it. You know nobody nobody expects that everyone will get what they want. The issue is this the dev has managed to step on every one in this game from nerfs to balancing acts. Whether its crafters or jedi. I mean every one has bit hit upside the head. I from a neibor state as these Texas boys. Today I was talking to some of my coworkers about Texans. The thing is 90% of the people i have problems with are Texans. They have a real major attitude problems or atleast there tourist do. I'am begining to think that soe dev team have the texas aggorance deasease. At this point just want to see swg go away take the damn game to pastourin your own words.
Message Edited by digicyberpirate on 10-05-200608:30 PM
Emottikee Master Smuggler/Arkon's squadron Ace Pilot. Capt of the Republic Crusader.
Stricken Master Spy
ARK Master Droid Engineer
A true jedi would stop and help others in need. A real jedi seaks improvement of one self. The way I see it the real jedi are still few in number.
Chris is responsible for his posts. Despite the tinfoil hat allegations, when devs post, they speak pretty freely.
As far as my own opinion goes, I thought it was an interesting post.
Actually its a very good example on how to write an interesting post within community guidelines.
Kurt if you suck up any more, you're going to fly away.
And it was an interesting post, but it was poorly constructed and full of half-truths.
Actually, when and if dev's post they typically tread on very thin ice doing it, we all know that what they have to say, if it doesn't go through the legal dept has to now contain, "This information is subject to change." The reasoning behind that is because very few of the developers can be bothered to take responsibility for what they say, or their errors.
When Julio comes on the forums and apologizes to us for ruining our last year in SWG and resigns, then maybe you can start to be taken seriously.
________________________________
Experience the greatest Star Wars saga ever told -- yours. ________________________________
Miagi - Bounty Hunter of Old Hades - Defender of the Jedi Code Miag - Medical Student Of all the inhabitants of the inferno, none but Lucifer knows that hell is hell, and the secret function of Purgatory is to make of heaven an effective reality.
Well, I have to say, for all the people who take offense to this, "Tough!"
*Reads post count*
Hmmm. At the time of this posting, you have 12 posts to your name. I see you also registered in December of last year, AFTER SOE committed their wrong against us and slighted us (and have been ever since) for actually BEGGING them to give us back what they took from us.
But you, who have come into this with no knowledge of what the game was really like Pre-NGE, let alone Pre-CU, also are living in your comfort sone, playing the only SWG that you have ever known. I predict that when (and it WILL eventually happen) SOE decides that the NGE isn't working and implements a new system OVERNIGHT with little or no warning that will not be pre-anything but another bug-ridden can of worms, YOU will be one of the ones begging for your game back, only to be told, much to your frustration, that it is not going to happen without giving a valid reason why not.
When you have walked in the footsteps of those who have gone before you, and followed their path to its destination, then you will be qualified to act as if you have a leg to stand on. Some of those you are saying "Tough!" to have been a part of this community since the time when the essence of SWG was nothing more than a twinkle in Raph Koster's eye and a text document on his laptop.
So try to show a little respect. Okay, grasshopper?
In Christ, G. B. JacksonSWG gives us choices, alright. It's like "What do you want, the Gray Food with the Brown Sauce or the Brown Food with the Gray Sauce?" And, with the expertise system, both options are now served with Green Chunks...
AphroditeX wrote: If you dont want to (or cant) depend on the input from the boards being the voice of the players of the game as a whole, why not implement some surveys where questions could be answered by the players who actually play the game??
Alot of these people have months left on a years subscription and are only here to flame no matter what is posted. Id rather see feedback from players who play then a discruntled ex player that has time left on his or her account to post flames.
I agree, some people dont even know these forums exist, why not have some type of ingame survey or questionaire, to get more than 20% of the players opinion or so those that dont visit here no about upcoming changes.
LOL, have you ever seen the survey you get when you cancel your account? It's slanted and leaves no room for your opinion...
They actually updated it lately. When I canceled yesterday it even had little boxes where you could fill in "other:" reasons for leaving.
They also finally updated their games that you're leaving for list from a few months ago when it still had world of warcraft listed as beta...lol
This post is brought to you by the letter G
I'm a forum poster that used to craft weapons, but now has nothing to craft...so I post about it. Give me a role to play and I'll be a player that posts again.
Well, I was a player that posted...now I am a poster that plays.
Why would someone ever decide to post more than they play? For me, it was the NGE.
I was a player you spoke of earlier. I rushed home from work...many days early, and even a couple "sick days" This was my 1st MMO, and my 1st video game since Zelda on the SuperNES.
So, from before the launch of this game I read every single word on the internet about SWG, and checked several times a day for new content. Remembering many of TH's 1st posts as well as counting the days till launch.
Why...why was I hooked like this? Because it was Star Wars!!!
Several players like myself have dedicated so much time and love to this game, the NGE hit us harder that others. This is the best explanation as to why we have our "angry" Vets, and "open minded" NGE players. This is also a great explanation as to why many of us vets migrated to the boards as this is the last island we have that reminds us of the old game. Lashing out at us for our posts trying to better the game is just bad.
Have I made negative posts....sure. Have I helped others more...you bet.
I guess what I am trying to say here is...I want to leave the boards! I want to return to the game!
But posts like Chris's, and with backing from TH really make me sad.
This is not the direction you guys need to be going. Please try and work towards a common goal with your playerbase. ALL of your playerbase, including an old player like myself.
State percise answers to questions
Acknowledge concerns and issues
If you make a statement, follow through
...and please, start living up to the fact that this is Star Wars.
It SHOULD be the hardest game to create, because you have a fan base of millions that love Star Wars more than I think LA and SOE understand.
Statements like the op's just keep blasting you guys in the face, and drawing the line between the players and the DEV's.
SYBOOTH...A Zombie stole my PANTS !! ________________Jorras Thri v lvl 23 Imperial Medic
Virrago - (9/21/2006) [Stating that the subpar smuggling system would be pushed to LIVE] "...and to clarify.... It would require another publish (in other words not chapter 3)" Smugglers History - Written by the DEV'sv Imperial Holo-ReportvMerchant ~ Talus -2310 36 -2164
Well, I have to say, for all the people who take offense to this, "Tough!"
*Reads post count*
Hmmm. At the time of this posting, you have 12 posts to your name. I see you also registered in December of last year, AFTER SOE committed their wrong against us and slighted us (and have been ever since) for actually BEGGING them to give us back what they took from us.
But you, who have come into this with no knowledge of what the game was really like Pre-NGE, let alone Pre-CU, also are living in your comfort sone, playing the only SWG that you have ever known. I predict that when (and it WILL eventually happen) SOE decides that the NGE isn't working and implements a new system OVERNIGHT with little or no warning that will not be pre-anything but another bug-ridden can of worms, YOU will be one of the ones begging for your game back, only to be told, much to your frustration, that it is not going to happen without giving a valid reason why not.
When you have walked in the footsteps of those who have gone before you, and followed their path to its destination, then you will be qualified to act as if you have a leg to stand on. Some of those you are saying "Tough!" to have been a part of this community since the time when the essence of SWG was nothing more than a twinkle in Raph Koster's eye and a text document on his laptop.
So try to show a little respect. Okay, grasshopper?
Great post, ChrisCao! Though, I doubt you'll actually read to 72 pages of feedback, so I must admit, this is to shamelessly increase my post count while I can't play the game. I do actually spend more time on the boards now, since it's the only way I can keep contact with the game when I'm away from home
But I am a player who posts, don't doubt it. Anyway, once again, great post, some of the forum community needed to be reminded they don't dictate policy and that they are not gods. The best we can do is give you guys ideas. You make the calls, and that's the way it should be.
And aside from that, you're no longer reading my post.
---------------------------------------- The unseen is unstoppable. GUILD OF THE HORIZON GUILD LEADER
Well, well. Looks like Cao has stirred up quite a stew here. Perhaps I can give my own interpretation of what Cao said to hopefully clarify some things.
The forum community is constantly asking for more communication with the developers
When developers attempt to communicate, the voices of reasonable volume among the players immediately become drowned out by a vocal subset of forum trolls, making it a practical improbability to communicate effectively. If I could spend only half the time I do filtering unproductive flames from my reading, I could actually ask more Designers to visit the forums because I would know they wouldn't be diverting their precious development time for little return on that time investment. As it is, I have to do most of the forum mining because it's not a good investment of more than a few people's time. None of the Designers have "mine the forums for useable data" as part of their job description, by the way. Every time a Designer posts on these forums or reads through pages of flames they're not working on getting that next feature into the game.
The number of SWG players that visit these forums is actually quite small, and the subset of those players that make up the majority of the angry noise is even smaller. Add to that that those people probably aren't playing the game very much and you see why it's not fair to the majority of SWG players to devote alot of time sifting through these posts, much less responding to them.
Developers, ChrisCao included, want to create Entertainment that you, the player, enjoy. This is our work, and for many of us it's our life's work. We actually want to communicate and work with those people that play our game and want it to be the best it can be. We can't do that when sound of fury is so overpowering that communication becomes impossible.
If you want to make the game better, let's do it together. SWG solicits and uses more player input than any other game developed in the history of Ever. That makes it a unique challenge for game developers. You can think of it a little bit like an architect building a bridge but having to take input from the rest of the town on how to do it. It's difficult because the architect needs the bridge to perform its function and be safe, yet he also wants the residents of the town - the people who will be using it - to enjoy traveling on the bridge. Most of the other architects don't take input from the town residents on how the bridge is built. Most architects would say "I know how to a build a bridge that will safely transport you from this shore to that shore. If you don't like the way it looks, you're free to travel on a different bridge".
That is not the approach SWG takes with it's residents. We want you to be part of the building process. No, it won't be perfectly perfect in the way you imagined every time. Probably not even most of the time (the proverbial bridge still has to serve its basic function at the end of the day). But, that doesn't mean we can't keep working on it - together.
You want to be heard? All you have to do is stop yelling and start communicating. I'm not trying to be rude when I say that, I mean that in the most tangible and practical way possible.
Their focus is the game. I think the lion's share of the profession feedback in the last couple publishes is a fantastic example of these .
. They use these forums to lash out at others, criticize wantonly, and generally feed their own egos. They regularly attack devs and moderators, clinging to past wrongs and imagined slights.They focus on themselves instead of the game.To them, the boards are the real game.
We’re here to play, and to make, SWG.
We have a lot of work to do and the feedback from is going to be invaluable.You aren’t going to like every decision we make and we understand that.We have a limited resources and time to accomplish all that needs to be done.But, as I’ve said before, we will be here (on the boards) and we will be listening.If you’re up for a focused discussion of ideas, we welcome you and you can bet you’ll have our attention.
We have better things to do.
I've been a player who posts for 3yrs, I've given feed back time and time again on both the game and my profession. I have rarely flamed SOE, rather criticizes what I did not like and offered possible options to improve the game. Time and time again SOE has ignored just about everything my community offered in the way of a smuggling system, time and time again you said you would listen and time and time again you didn't. You let exploits and bugs rot the fabric of the game away and for the most part offer no explanation as to why we have played a Beta for the last 3yrs. SOE and LA have changed this game so often with out any concern for the community of both the game and forums and destroyed both of them in the process.
I've give you every befit of the doubt, held out hope for not weeks or months but years. Nothing has changed you are still delivering a rushed product with little or no real content. Funny this post coming from a Dev has made my decision easier. It is honestly with great regret that I will now be quitting this game and the community. I don't expect anyone to care, Im not doing the to feed my ego I'm merely telling you SOE that as of now I have lost all hope in this game and will CXL right after I log out of WoW.
Damn Veela was right I've been a sucker paying you people the last 12 months hoping you would fix a game you screwed up at launch then again 2yrs ago, yet again a year ago and with finally with my beloved smuggler a few weeks ago.
Thanks so much SOE.
Yimayz Samoot Master Smuggler & Master Pilot Captain of the Auto de fé
Ralph's just a blue glowie now, and cannot help us
SYBOOTH...A Zombie stole my PANTS !! ________________Jorras Thri v lvl 23 Imperial Medic
Virrago - (9/21/2006) [Stating that the subpar smuggling system would be pushed to LIVE] "...and to clarify.... It would require another publish (in other words not chapter 3)" Smugglers History - Written by the DEV'sv Imperial Holo-ReportvMerchant ~ Talus -2310 36 -2164
we have been trying to communicate for about 10months now...but our posts go unheard or moderated. This is just the straw that broke the camels back
Helios_SOE wrote:
Well, well. Looks like Cao has stirred up quite a stew here. Perhaps I can give my own interpretation of what Cao said to hopefully clarify some things.
The forum community is constantly asking for more communication with the developers
When developers attempt to communicate, the voices of reasonable volume among the players immediately become drowned out by a vocal subset of forum trolls, making it a practical improbability to communicate effectively. If I could spend only half the time I do filtering unproductive flames from my reading, I could actually ask more Designers to visit the forums because I would know they wouldn't be diverting their precious development time for little return on that time investment. As it is, I have to do most of the forum mining because it's not a good investment of more than a few people's time. None of the Designers have "mine the forums for useable data" as part of their job description, by the way. Every time a Designer posts on these forums or reads through pages of flames they're not working on getting that next feature into the game.
The number of SWG players that visit these forums is actually quite small, and the subset of those players that make up the majority of the angry noise is even smaller. Add to that that those people probably aren't playing the game very much and you see why it's not fair to the majority of SWG players to devote alot of time sifting through these posts, much less responding to them.
Developers, ChrisCao included, want to create Entertainment that you, the player, enjoy. This is our work, and for many of us it's our life's work. We actually want to communicate and work with those people that play our game and want it to be the best it can be. We can't do that when sound of fury is so overpowering that communication becomes impossible.
If you want to make the game better, let's do it together. SWG solicits and uses more player input than any other game developed in the history of Ever. That makes it a unique challenge for game developers. You can think of it a little bit like an architect building a bridge but having to take input from the rest of the town on how to do it. It's difficult because the architect needs the bridge to perform its function and be safe, yet he also wants the residents of the town - the people who will be using it - to enjoy traveling on the bridge. Most of the other architects don't take input from the town residents on how the bridge is built. Most architects would say "I know how to a build a bridge that will safely transport you from this shore to that shore. If you don't like the way it looks, you're free to travel on a different bridge".
That is not the approach SWG takes with it's residents. We want you to be part of the building process. No, it won't be perfectly perfect in the way you imagined every time. Probably not even most of the time (the proverbial bridge still has to serve its basic function at the end of the day). But, that doesn't mean we can't keep working on it - together.
You want to be heard? All you have to do is stop yelling and start communicating. I'm not trying to be rude when I say that, I mean that in the most tangible and practical way possible.
Miagi - Bounty Hunter of Old Hades - Defender of the Jedi Code Miag - Medical Student Of all the inhabitants of the inferno, none but Lucifer knows that hell is hell, and the secret function of Purgatory is to make of heaven an effective reality.
When I canceled yesterday it even had little boxes where you could fill in "other:" reasons for leaving.
