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Status of Pistoleer Specials   [ Edited ]
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Randonb
Blue Glowie
Posts: 4726
Registered: 06-28-2003


Randonb

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Here I have listed every Pistoleer Special, and it's status. The broken specials are in Red, the redundant or inadequate specials are in Yellow, and the working specials are in Green. They are listed in no particular order. This system is copied almost exactly from Carbineer Correspondent, novamarine.
 
You may notice a number of DPS comparisons involving pistol speeds. The pistol speeds mentioned are accurate for a Master Pistoleer with 74 speed. Unfortunately, the speed numbers are completely made up in that the pistols may or may not be available to the player. Most of the speeds listed are either impossible with all but the Scout Blaster schematic (complete with a speed slice and speed powerup) or require Krayt Tissue, and darn good tissue at that. This will make more sense as you read on. The fastest pistol realistically available to most players before slice is between 1.8 and 2.0.
 

 
Working Specials: 2
Redundant/Inadequate Specials: 5
Broken Specials: 5
 
Health Shot 2: A health bleed that deals more damage than Health Shot 1. The initial hit is random HAM, which is and enormous problem and is expected to be fixed in Publish 7. Unfortunately, our bleeds do less than that of Carbineers and Riflemen. The damage is based on the weapon in the player's hands, and they all "tick" at the same speed. Since pistols are supposed to be "weak but fast," we get the short end of the stick. Our speed advantage is negated, and our damage disadvantage is maintained. This disparity is made even worse by armor piercing. (Fix: Either increase the damage or factor weapon speed into bleeds. Apply similar thinking to other professoins.)
 
Point Blank Single 2: It works as intended, but why would you use it? Our accuracy at point blank range is outstanding, and you get much better results with either Body Shot 2/3 or one of our better random HAM specials. (Fix: Increase damage and add temporary defensive modifiers to justify the additional risk of firing from point blank range.)
 
Point Blank Area 2: Does not hit multiple targets. Again, why would you use it even if it did? (Fix: Increase damage and add temporary defensive modifiers to justify the additional risk of firing from point blank range. Repair AoE effect.)
 
Body Shot 3: Works, but not as well as Body Shot 2. The only conditions where BS3 has a higher DPS than BS2 is when the player has +74 pistol speed (Master Pistoleer) and he has a 1.9 speed pistol. The ham costs on BS3 are significantly higher than those of BS2. (Fix: Increase damage multiplier, as was done for Head Shot 3 months ago.)
 
Double Tap: Technically works, but is inferior to the random HAM Marksman special Kip Up Shot until the player is a Master Pistoleer with a 2.0 speed pistol. Even then, you get better DPS with Fan Shot. (Fix: have it target 2 HAM pools at random, but have it divide the damage between the 2 targeted pools. [giving it the potential to land on the same pool twice] Increase damage slightly. Give a chance for a random pool bleed.)
 
Stopping Shot: Works, but is inferior to Fan Shot until the player is a Master Pistoleer with a 1.2 speed pistol. One could argue that Stopping Shot is good for single targets and Fan Shot is good for multiple targets, but this doesn't hold water. A relatively experienced player should have no trouble aiming the cone effect to avoid unwanted targets. Versus a single target, Body Shot 3 (2.5 multiplier) brings targets down faster than Stopping Shot (5.0 multiplier) unless the Master Pistoleer has a 1.3 speed pistol, and even then, it only kills 0.01695% faster. (Fix: Give Stopping Shot a posture change down or other stopping effect.)
 
Fan Shot: By and large, this special works. It has good DPS as far as Pistoleer Specials go, and has an area effect cone. Our only complaints would be the AoE cone bug that is present in any similar special: It won't damage targets that are not currently engaged in combat, but it will agro them. (Fix: Fix the AoE bug.)
 
Pistol Melee Defense 1: Works as intended. It's a melee range (10m) knockdown.  (Fix: None needed at this time.)
 
Pistol Melee Defense 2: The knockdown appears to be bugged. It almost never lands. The special doesn't really do anything. A random HAM melee attack with a high ham cost. (Fix: give Pistol Melee Defense 2 a reliable knockdown & a state effect, such as Stun or Dizzy.)
 
Multi Target Pistol Shot: A master level special. It attacks all targets within a 32m radius, but there are bugs. It doesn't damage targets that aren't engaged in combat, it fails to attack and clears the combat queue if there is a Line of Sight obstruction to one or more of the targets, and it clears the combat queue when one of the targets is slain. Even so, the combat effectiveness leaves much to be desired. Players even report better results using a single target special and "tabbing through" the targets. Fan Shot has a higher DPS than MTPS until the player is a Master Pistoleer with a 1.1 speed pistol. Since it is so easy to line up a Cone effect with Fan Shot, the 32m Sphere effect of MTPS just isn't valuable in it's current state, even if it worked like it was supposed to. (Fix: fix the aforementioned bugs and either increase the damage multiplier, or make it health damage. Consider adding a state effect or DoT.)
 
Disarming Shot 1: Doesn't do anything worthwhile. A low damage, random HAM special. It's double damage against lairs effect was removed in Publish 9. (Fix: Give Disarming Shot 1 the Intimidate state effect. Consider making it Health damage, as it presumably strikes the hands. Return double damage against lairs effect.)
 
Disarming Shot 2: A master level special. Doesn't do anything worthwhile. A low damage, random HAM cone effect special with an extremely high HAM cost. It's double damage against lairs effect was removed in Publish 9. A little more damage than Disarming Shot 1. (Fix: give Disarming Shot 2 the Intimidate state effect and maintain its AoE cone. Consider making this special health damage as well. Return double damage against lairs effect)

Message Edited by Randonb on 07-18-2004 01:51 AM



"...You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." biwan:
Former Pistoleer Correspondent (02/04/04 - 09/05/04)
03-04-2004 12:23 AM  

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Re: Status of Pistoleer Specials
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BigLands
SWG Petty Officer
Posts: 348
Registered: 11-13-2003


BigLands

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Nicely summed up there!

 

Shaw Lands
Formerly Pistoleer & Entirely Legitimate Businessman
One Time Avatar of the Old Republic
Cancelled after waiting for the Smuggler Revamp for a year and a half.
03-04-2004 12:37 AM  

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djswift2k
Jedi
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djswift2k
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i remember when disarming shot 2 was an aoe kd that had a nice damage multiplier..... maybe they could bring that back so we could actualyl kill things like everybody else...
03-04-2004 01:38 AM  

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djswift2k
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o and ive been a master pistoleer since augest, and remastered an additional two times so dont say I dont know anything about the profession =)
03-04-2004 01:39 AM  

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Zidas
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Registered: 11-18-2003



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Why disarming Shot cannot damage enemy weapons conditions? ... why it's called DISARMING SHOT?
03-04-2004 03:38 AM  

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Re: Status of Pistoleer Specials   [ Edited ]
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Jpshaff01
Jedi
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Jpshaff01
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the dizzy kd is a good idea for pmd2 but may be pushing it, possibly i was thinking pmd2 could be a area kd similar to the pike kd.  I'm not sure what would be a fair range for it though.  But pistoleers are supposed to get close their opponents and be on the move so i think the area kd may be suitible.  I would throw that in at master though, and same if we get dizzy kd.   I was wondering whatever happened to the idea of haveing disarmingshot 2 un-equip the targets weapon, maybe that to compex to deal with.  I would just like to see more interesting things happen, but the state effects seem really good since i think pistoleer should be somewhat similar to tka and fencer and play a role in that type of combat.

Message Edited by Jpshaff01 on 03-04-2004 03:46 AM

-iMMoRtALs-

; Jpshaff Shaffer ; Meatshield Defiler ; Hustler Inc. ;

03-04-2004 03:42 AM  

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ratlif
Jedi
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Registered: 02-12-2004


ratlif

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Well good to know what is offically working and not working. Thanks for the heads up.

Stopping Shot:  I like the additon of posture change to stopping shot. Now it somewhat means what it is titled.
 
Disarming Shot: Wish this would mean what it said.. that being it actually takes arms away from the person. For instance, disarm shot on a player, it doesn't allow them to use their weapon ..ya know, disarm lol
 
Pistol Melee Def 2: This is something i look forward too, especially with the added effect ( dizzy would be nice )

Account Cancelled August 5, 2004
Reason: Lack of attention on a severly broke core game.
03-04-2004 03:46 AM  

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Wili
Wing Commander
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Registered: 11-17-2003


Wili

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We dont need a kd/dizzy.

Pistol Melee Defense 2 should do mind damage and make the target blind.. like eye shot but with its range capped at 10 meters.


Wili Eosi Hero of Farstar
03-04-2004 03:53 AM  

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Doobeous
Wing Commander
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Doobeous
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nice ideas.  now if the BH correspondent would only do likewise...

Dubious +Imperial Colonel+Master Smuggler+ +IMPOL White Cell Squadron+ A fiesty little fellow to be sure
03-04-2004 05:04 AM  

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Daermoth
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Daermoth
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Anyone else want to see disarming shot actually disarm a target (for pvp, knock the weapon back into the players inventory)?  Would be danged funny to have a pikeman rushing towards you only to get in melee range and find himself punching you, or a rifleman scratching the air with his finger.  Creative stuff like this would make pistoleer far more attractive.

0000000000000000000.Colonel Daermoth Kaetan..0000000000000000000
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03-04-2004 05:14 AM  

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ImpDude
Jedi
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ImpDude
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Hoping for pmd2 for a added dizzy effect will defeat the purpose.....maybe stun or just a higher kd rate and a high dam rate. I would wish disarmshot2 would have the kd cone...but that will make pvp all to easy if you have carbineer (dizy/kd cone as well)...after you kd you can just spam fanshot with only a couple of people hitting you while you are wamping on the rest. Id say that would be perfect for defending AH. I can just see my teamates running down the hill towards the shuttleport dropping in a nice little cone shape
 
Also i think disarm shot 1 should be a delay or a blind. Remember we just want it fixed not overpowered. Multi Target pistol shot is just beyond me completly.
 
Im starting to think that the devs acually want us to fight against tkms in their territory. Why else would they give use melee def mods and def v.s kd and dizzy. All that goes away when they use unarmed kd 2. Ive only survived in the tkms lunge range once...That was because he missed and misjudged. I pulled off a couple of fanshots and he got zapped by my pal.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shaq Brown-pistoleer 4044/pikeman/tk

Mr Fish (Ahazi)- Master rifleman/ master doc

Aurey Fiera (Bria)-Master bh/pistoleer 0004
03-04-2004 05:20 AM  

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WookieOgre
Jedi
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Registered: 09-02-2003


WookieOgre

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Nice summary.  Although I'm saddened by the state of the specials. 
 
So I guess Pistoleer is now going to be the most broken ranged profession, inlight of the carbineer changes.  I have to congratulate the carbineers, they got fixed and then some.  Since I was once a Master Carbineer I am happy for them, AoE/Cone k/d, AoE/Cone Dizzy, AoE/Cone bleed w/ posture change......all I can say is wow (not sure if those specials are area or cone).  That is not only crowd control that is a Ranged Teras Kasi, specially since its rumored that the k/d (chargeshot 2) has a damage multiplier of 6.  All Master Carbineer's deserve this fix.  I was a master for 2 weeks and dropped because it was horrid, only able to use 2 specials out of the whole profession to hunt was insane.  My only question is, what time frame are we looking at to be competitive with the rest of the Ranged Professions.
 
I know we have had some of our specials nerfed a while ago, but in light of Rifleman being the end all Ranged Profession, Carbineers coming close behind with the fixes, Bounty Hunter specials can own (well maybe they need a defensive bump but offensively they have nice specials), and Commando has flamer specials with multiple broken guns (although Heavy Acid Rifle supposedly is fixed with the stacking speed/accuracy mods now).
 
Seeing how I'm going Master Teras Kasi with my Master Pistoleer/Master Smuggler, if things dont start to look good for Pistoleer I may never use my pistol again (wont drop it because I love Smuggler).  However, whats the point of using a pistol if all the specials suck and I can just do 3k damage a second with my fists.  I'm not asking to be uber, just asking to have a point to the specials like Carbineer. 
03-04-2004 06:16 AM  

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Epukag
Jedi
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Registered: 07-07-2003


Epukag

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great summary!

12 specials

2 working

makes me sad....

\ AkMe /
(Master Armorsmith +26 Armor Experimentation | Assembly | Repair | +FS Experimentation)

~ AkMee Junior ~ - Master Pistoleer / Master Smuggler / TKM
@ AkMe Advanced Armor - Theed / Naboo -5435 , 3416 @

BUYING ACKLAY RIS SCHEMATICS AND YELLOW CUBES
03-04-2004 06:52 AM  

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Gensei
SWG Ensign
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Registered: 06-26-2003


Gensei

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This is the best pistoleer post ever! thanks
03-04-2004 06:58 AM  

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MCPrimetime
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good post man

MCPrimetime
Jingles
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03-04-2004 07:02 AM  

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