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Carbineer Issues and Status   [ Edited ]
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TAfirehawk
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TAfirehawk
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Carbineer Top Issues
 
 
With the Combat Balance coming, I post these as a current reference point for Carbineers...not necessarily where Carbineer is going in the future.
 
 
1.  Carbine Speed
 
Currently Carbineer has +60 at Master and as a result, Carbineer is the slowest of the ranged elite professions.   This makes it difficult to contribute to a group in PvE because other classes are firing faster thus doing more damage.  It also makes engaging in PvP largely futile.  The low speed of the class forces players to either accept it, spend millions on speed enhancing attachments or spend all of their remaining points to add Bounty Hunter for more speed, all of this just to compete with what other professions get at Master alone.
 
Solution:  A little speed goes a long way.  Bringing the class up to +75 speed at Master would help infinitely.
 
 
2.  Defenses
 
Carbineers lag behind other elite professions in Defenses.   Even melee professions typically have more Ranged Defense than Carbineer.  The Carbineer profession has many Cone Effect Specials which draw significant attention to the player.  Without sufficient Defenses, these skills are more suicidal than practical.  The Carbineer profession does not have sufficient offensive power to warrant the lack of Defenses currently in the game.  In addition, Counterattack is not working properly in that it is; #1 not working frequently enough and #2 not “counterattacking” (it appears to be working merely as a dodge).
 
Solution:  Fix Counterattack so that it “counterattacks” and activates as often as it should.
Solution:  Increase Ranged Defense.
Solution:  Increase resistance to States including Stun and Blind.
 
 
3.  Carbine Selection and Effectiveness
 
Carbineers only have access to carbines that do Energy, Acid and Heat.  These are incredibly common resists in both PvE and PvP.  Many high-end targets (for example, certain NightSisters) cannot even be damaged by Carbineers meaning they are unable to participate in certain high-end content.  Other ranged classes including Pistoleer and Rifleman have access to many more types of damage including Stun.  In addition to being unable to even damage certain mobs, many other mobs are merely tickled by our damage.  In these cases, the reason is heavy armor and high percent resists.  We are a medium-speed weapon profession, yet have only 1 medium armor penetration carbine.  This makes it impossible for Carbineers to contribute in a meaningful way in high-end content.  The combination of little choice in damage-types and lack of armor penetration makes Carbineer unable to participate and enjoy high-end PvE content and “dungeons”.  It is highly unfair that this profession is unable to participate in the end game content.
 
Solution:  Increase selection of Carbine Damage types beyond the most common resists so that Carbineers can be effective in both PvE and PvP.  Suggestions include an Electricity Carbine, Cold Carbine and/or Stun Carbine.  NOTE:  Kinetic and Blast are NOT options here as those are specific distinction damage types for TKA and Commando respectively.
Solution:  Increase the AP rating on the DXR6 and/or Elite Carbine to AP 2 and/or add new carbines to the game that have AP medium armor ratings.
 
 
4.  HAM Costs
 
The HAM costs for the various Carbineer Specials are so high that a Carbineer's skills cannot be effectively used in combat without Doctor Buffs, extensive food use or heavy investment into Medic skills. 
 
Solution:  Lower the HAM costs to balance the Carbineer Specials with other classes.
 
 
5.  Carbineers have lost distinction
 
When the game went gold, Carbineers were seen as a Crowd Control Profession because of their KnockDowns, Posture Changes, Cone Effect/Multi-Targe Specials and State-Applying Specials.  Changes to these states have made them much less useful and as such Carbineers have lost their distinction as a Crowd Control Class.  Aside from the fundamental difference between the weapons themselves, there is little difference between Carbineer and other ranged classes.  Right now the only minor thing that separates Carbineers from other classes is the numerous states that Carbineer Specials can apply to targets.  However, these states (Stun and Blind in particular) are so minor in their effects, many players do not even know what they really do or if they are even working.  For example, when something is Intimidated (which is available at novice brawler – 15 skill points) it is easy to tell the damage dealt by that target is being reduced.  When a Master Carbineer (92 skill points), Stuns and Blinds a target, the effects are minimal and nothing compared to Intimidate.  Further, it is impossible to apply States to targets in high-end PvE.   There isn’t just a low chance, there is zero chance (repeated use of State-Applying Specials never applies a State).  Flip side to this, Jedi walk right up and Stun, Blind and Dizzy high-end targets with easy. 
 
Lastly, other classes such as Pistoleer and Rifleman want states added to their Specials which would further erode the uniqueness of Carbineer. 
 
Solution:  Posture Changes are far less potent and useful than KnockDowns as they merely deny movement compared with KnockDowns that deny movement and attacking ability and increase damage taken by 50%.  They merely serve as way to “crowd control” large groups of targets.  However, both Posture Changes and KnockDowns have the same 30 second immunity.  Please consider reducing the time on Posture Changes to 15 seconds so that Carbineers can act as Crowd Controllers again.
Solution:  Stun and Blind applied from Carbineer (elite profession) are less potent than Intimidate (Novice Brawler).  Please increase the effectiveness of Stun and Blind.  It is a great disadvantage to be Intimidated and Carbineers feel being Stunned or Blinded should result in a similar penalty.
Solution:  Carbineers need to be able to apply States to high-end mobs.  This does not need to be a 100% chance but give us reasonable a chance to apply States. 
 

6.  No Special or Skill gained at Master
 
Carbineers gain no new Special in the Master Box.  Many players are very upset by this.  A minority feel we have enough Specials already and do not really need a NEW Special but should adjust the granting of Specials in the Skill Tree (i.e. move a good skill into the Master Box).  Many suggestions have been made regarding what should be in the Master Box.  I am providing four suggestions.  Three are Specials and one is a new Activated Buff (similar to PowerBoost or Center of Being).  The Activated Buff idea is popular because it adds something at Master while not adding another Special (addressing the concerns of both sides).  In addition, the Activated Buff would provide an element of uniqueness to the class.
 
Suggested Bonus Options for Master:
 
•Assault Tactics:  a small boost to Carbine Speed (+10), a small boost to Counterattack (+15) and a small boost to Running Speed (higher than normal, lower than BurstRun).  This skill would be an Activated Buff similar to Center of Being or PowerBoost.  It would have a short duration (~ 3 minutes) followed by a slightly longer cooldown (~5 minutes).
 
•GrazingFire:  Cone Effect/Multi-Target Special that has a good chance of Intimidate. 
 
•FullAutoSingle3 (possible new name? Disintegrating Blast):  Higher damage version of FullAutoSingle2 with a higher chance of Stun/Dizzy/Blind.
 
•CripplingShot2 (possible new name?  Eviscerating Volley):  Higher damage version of CripplingShot.
 

7.  PvP Issues
 
Without the ability to target Mind, Carbineers must attack either Action or Health.  The issue here is that after the 75% PvP Reduction, Range Mitigation and Composite Armor, the damage applied to the target is so minimal that targets with Doctor Buffs (99.9% of targets are buffed) will just regenerate the lost Health or Action as fast as it is applied.   In the event some damage does accumulate, the target can just use a Stim B (Novice Medic, 15 skill points) to heal the damage.  In essence, the combination of Armor, Doctor Buffs and Stims means that a target can regenerate and/or heal damage faster than it can be applied by a Carbineer.  We have a situation where the entire offense capability of Carbineer can be negated by 15 skill points (novice medic), Armor and Doctor Buffs (which can be applied by another player).  The reasons for this include inability to hit the Mind pool, low Speed and Carbine Damage selection (armors in the game are very effective at stopping Energy, Heat and Acid). 
 
Solution:  Increase Carbine Damage.
Solution:  Increase the AP1 on the DXR6 Carbine to AP2 (the DXR6 Carbine is the best choice of carbines for PvP yet lags far behind the AP3 T21).
Solution:  Increase Speed so that Carbineers can apply damage faster to overcome healing and regeneration.
Solution:  Provide a carbine with a damage type that is not easily absorbed by current armors.
Solution:  Many of the above.
Alternate Solution:  Adjust bleeds so that a bleeding target no longer regenerates in the pool that is bleeding.  This would have the side benefit of helping other classes that have similar issues in PvP such as Pistoleers.
 
 
8. Fix LegShot3
 
LegShot3 is exactly the same as LegShot2, a Marksman Special with respect to Damage Modifier and Delay Modifier.  Every other Special, while at times somewhat redundant, has an increased benefit at increased levels.  A Carbineer needs a reason to strive for this higher level Special.

Solution:  Increase damage on LegShot3 and convert it to a Cone Effect/Multi-Target Special.
 
 
9.  Chargeshot1&2 have a charge animation
 
When using ChargeShot1 or 2, the players goes through a charging animation and moves 5m closer to the target.  The Special can only be used Standing and will not work Prone or Kneeling.  Many players find this greatly annoying.  Others are indifferent.  Truth be told, it is frustrating the Special cannot be used from Prone or Kneeling and it is very difficult to keep in the Carbine Ideal Range when the Specials continue to move you closer to the target.  The fundamental question that is asked is, is the effect of the Special worth the fact it can only be used Standing and that it moves you 5m closer?
 
Solution:  Many players would like to see this animations standing-only restriction removed.  However, since some players like it, is there a middle ground?  Can the Special be changed to move less?  Perhaps 2m?  Could it be modified to use from a Kneeling position?
 
 

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 10-07-2004 08:14 PM

Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER
09-24-2004 10:30 AM  

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Re: Carbineer Issues and Status   [ Edited ]
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TAfirehawk
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Simple/Quick Fix Possibilites before Combat Balance
 
 
Under the current system, speed is broken and needs to be fixed.  However, that doesn't change the fact that Carbineer's have to play under the current system and are currently too slow to compete.  Master Rifleman have 90, Pistoleers have 74 and Carbineers have only 60 speed.
Solution:  Raise Carbineer to 75 at Master.  Add 5 more speed at Advanced Assault Tactics, Master Assault Tactics and the Master Carbineer box.
 
Counterattack is not working properly.  It does not activate enough and it does not attack back as advertised.
Solution:  Increase the frequency of counterattacking.  Worry about the secondary attack later in the process.
 
Carbineer cannot do enough damage in PvP under the current system (meaning current armors) in order to kill opponents.
Solution:  Increase the damage on Carbines by increasing the AP rating of 1 or 2 of them.  Increase the DXR-6 Carbine to AP2 (best solution given the current resists of current armors).  Increase the Elite Carbine to AP2.
 
Carbineers have extremely weak Defenses and State Resists compared with Rifleman and Pistoleers.
Solution:  Add more Melee and Ranged Defenses.  +40 Melee and +60 Ranged Defense for a Master would be fair.
Solution:  Add +20 Stun, Blind and Dizzy defense to boxes in the Counterinsurgency line.
 
Legshot3 is exactly the same as LegShot2. 
Solution:  Increase damage on LegShot3 and convert it to a Cone Effect/Multi-Target Special.
 
Carbineers can only do Acid, Heat and Energy damage.  These damage types are common and many high-end mobs are heavily resitant or even immune to these excluding Carbineers from much of the high-end content.
Solution:  Add an Electricity Carbine.  Consider changing the Nym's Slug Thrower Carbine (acid! not needed!) to Nym's Spark Thrower and make it do Electicity damage.
 
 

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 09-24-2004 01:36 PM

Iebas Feania
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09-24-2004 10:30 AM  

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Re: Carbineer Issues and Status   [ Edited ]
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TAfirehawk
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Status of Carbineer as presented to TH by Novamarine
 
 
Thunderheart asked all the Correspondants to define their professions, list all the abilities, label abilities as fun/unfun/useful/etc and then offer a brief overview of how the class should work in group combat and in the GCW.   It was supposed to be 1-2 pages (it is exactly 2 pages long).  Here is the submission so that you can see what Novamarine had communicated to the Developers.
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Profession:  Carbineer
This profession requires the Carbine line from Marksman.
A Master Carbineer spends a total of 92 points.
 

Abilities:
 
Numerous specials – this list is too long to list them all.  Most are fun and work well; Fullautosingle2, Fullautoarea1/2, Chargeshot1/2, Burstshot1/2, Cripplingshot, Scattershot1/2 are all used frequently by a Master Carbineer.  A handful are unfun/not useful/broken and are listed below:
 
Wildshot1 - single target - Random pool damage with the chance to stun.  Unfun because it applies stun while many other specials apply stun such as fullautosingle2, fullautoarea1/2 and Legshot2/3.  This special has zero practical use.  It has been widely requested by carbineer’s to have this special either do something different or apply a new state such as intimidate.
 
Wildshot2 - cone - Cone version of wildshot1.  Same issues as Wildshot1.
 
Legshot3 - single target - Targets action and has a chance to stun. This special is exactly identical to the Novice Marksman special Legshot2.
Suppressionfire2 - single target - Random pool damage with a chance to posture down.  Unfun because it applies a posture down while many other specials apply a posture down including suppressionfire1 and actionshot1/2.  This special has zero practical use.  It has been widely requested by carbineers to have this special do something in addition to the posture change such as apply a new state such as warcry (i.e.weapon firing delay) or convert this special to a cone special with a VERY high chance to posture down the target.
 
 
The ability to apply numerous states and postures to targets.

Fun - these work great in low- and mid-level PvE.  They are also a big source of our distinction as a profession.
Unfun – the states/postures are impossible to apply on high-end PvE content.  In essence, high-end content completely neutralizes one of the class’s biggest advantages.
Unfun – players have been given HUGE resists to states/postures either through their profession or foods.  These defenses completely negate our skills.
 
 
Ability to use energy, acid and heat damage.

Unfun – These damage types are very common, highly resisted by many targets and many high-end targets are completely immune to them.   Combined with a previous points on states, carbineers are left out of much of the high-end PvE content.  Carbineers need access to more types of damage.  A lightning carbine would be ideal.
 
 
Numerous cone specials

Fun – Cone specials are very effective and awesome fun to use.
Unfun – These specials often fire through walls and ceilings making them suicidal to use in “dungeons” because they will agro the entire place.  Carbineers are forced to give up one of their advantages and use single-target specials.
 
 
Defenses

Unfun – Lowest melee (0) and ranged defenses (27) of any combat class.
Unfun – Counterattack is not working properly.  It does not activate as often as it should be and it does not “counterattack.” 
Unfun – lowest state defenses of any combat class.  +25 vs. intimidate and +15 vs. knockdown.
 
 
Master box

Unfun – no special is given at master.  Every other combat class gets a new special at master.  Carbineers would love a special that has a high chance of applying useful states as a master special. 
 
 
Group Combat Role and GCW Role
 
The role of a carbineer in group combat and in GCW is seen as nearly identical and not different so I will include them together.
 
Carbineer is often characterized as the thinking-players profession.  Rather than be a raw damage dealing profession, carbineers see themselves as debuffers that apply numerous states to the other side that not only do damage but either make the target more easily hit/damaged or reduce the effectiveness of the opposition’s attacks.  They have numerous specials that apply various states and posture downs.  They also have numerous specials that fire in a cone allowing the carbineer to target and effect whole groups.  Carbineers want to be the king of states and postures.   In addition, the carbineer must be capable of doing significant damage (i.e. their contribution should not just be states).  If this vision is realized, any competent carbineer would be a welcome addition into any group.
 
 
Disclaimer
 
For these visions to be realized, states/postures must be effective in both PvP and PvE.  When a target is, for example, stunned or blinded, there should be serious negative consequences.  Carbineers are willing to have their damage lower than comparable classes in order to apply meaningful states.  In this way states would be force amplifiers where the result of the carbineer stunning the target means that the target is significantly easier for the whole group to kill.   In addition, the states should be able to be applied after several attempts (targets in both PvE and PvP should not be immune or nearly immune to having states applied).  Currently, in PvE, many high-end targets are immune to all of the states that carbineers can apply. In PvP, many professions and foods offer defenses against states/postures that largely negate the states by making the states/postures impossible to apply.  As such, for carbineers to make a positive contribution to a group, the effectiveness of the states/postures and the formidable defenses against them must be balanced.  Carbineer cannot become a class defined by applying states and then give everyone defenses that make them immune.  A balance must be achieved.
 
 

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 09-24-2004 01:49 PM

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 10-07-2004 06:34 PM

Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER
09-24-2004 10:30 AM  

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Re: Carbineer Issues and Status
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TAfirehawk
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Reserved for future expansion.

Iebas Feania
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09-24-2004 10:31 AM  

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Re: Carbineer Issues and Status   [ Edited ]
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JanuHull
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Might want to change the PvP recommendation on AP improvement to the DXR-6 from the Elite. 
 
Also, both Pistoleers and Riflemen receive Melee defense in their Specials line, where we do not.  This is a glaring imparity that hurts us as well.

Message Edited by JanuHull on 09-24-2004 01:45 PM

Janu Hull
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09-24-2004 10:43 AM  

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Re: Carbineer Issues and Status
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TAfirehawk
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JanuHull wrote:
Might want to change the PvP recommendation on AP improvement to the DXR-6 from the Elite. 
 
Also, both Pistoleers and Riflemen receive Melee defense in their Specials line, where we do not.  This is a glaring imparity that hurts us as well.

Message Edited by JanuHull on 09-24-2004 01:45 PM



Ah yes, it was updated in the Quick Fixes, but not the full list.....*fixing*

 

Iebas Feania
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09-24-2004 10:50 AM  

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JosieNutter
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Good post, but a couple of minor points to bring up.

1) LegShot3 is a cone. Granted, I haven't used this is quite some time, but the last time I used it, it did affect multiple targets.

2) Chargeshot1&2. There is a way currently in-game to avoid the animation and the related movement. If you use the Aim ability prior to using Chargeshot, you won't move but you'll still get the knockdown. Aim is available from Ranged Support 1 in Novice Marksman, so it's not that hard to get if you don't have it already.


-K
09-24-2004 12:11 PM  

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JosieNutter wrote:
2) Chargeshot1&2. There is a way currently in-game to avoid the animation and the related movement. If you use the Aim ability prior to using Chargeshot, you won't move but you'll still get the knockdown. Aim is available from Ranged Support 1 in Novice Marksman, so it's not that hard to get if you don't have it already.


oooooooooooooooooooooooooh!!!!!!!!!  Devious!

Janu Hull
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09-24-2004 12:30 PM  

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TAfirehawk
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JanuHull wrote:


JosieNutter wrote:
2) Chargeshot1&2. There is a way currently in-game to avoid the animation and the related movement. If you use the Aim ability prior to using Chargeshot, you won't move but you'll still get the knockdown. Aim is available from Ranged Support 1 in Novice Marksman, so it's not that hard to get if you don't have it already.


oooooooooooooooooooooooooh!!!!!!!!!  Devious!



And you can just walk the other direction if you don't want to get closer....
 
 

Iebas Feania
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09-24-2004 12:33 PM  

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TAfirehawk wrote:


JanuHull wrote:


JosieNutter wrote:
2) Chargeshot1&2. There is a way currently in-game to avoid the animation and the related movement. If you use the Aim ability prior to using Chargeshot, you won't move but you'll still get the knockdown. Aim is available from Ranged Support 1 in Novice Marksman, so it's not that hard to get if you don't have it already.


oooooooooooooooooooooooooh!!!!!!!!!  Devious!



And you can just walk the other direction if you don't want to get closer....
 
 



Doesn't work in my experience.  Once the special is fired, it directs you at the target and moves you, regardless.

Janu Hull
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09-24-2004 02:17 PM  

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TAfirehawk
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JanuHull wrote:


TAfirehawk wrote:


JanuHull wrote:


JosieNutter wrote:
2) Chargeshot1&2. There is a way currently in-game to avoid the animation and the related movement. If you use the Aim ability prior to using Chargeshot, you won't move but you'll still get the knockdown. Aim is available from Ranged Support 1 in Novice Marksman, so it's not that hard to get if you don't have it already.


oooooooooooooooooooooooooh!!!!!!!!!  Devious!



And you can just walk the other direction if you don't want to get closer....
 
 



Doesn't work in my experience.  Once the special is fired, it directs you at the target and moves you, regardless.



Oh no it doesn't, I use this all the time....it just makes you move towards the target if you are stationary, but if you are moving, even sideways, you go in that direction....just don't stop moving so it won't turn you.

Iebas Feania
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09-24-2004 02:31 PM  

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Re: Carbineer Issues and Status   [ Edited ]
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Bennyboy4308
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You hit the nail right on the head.
 
<==]  |--------->
   ||
   ||
   ||

Message Edited by Bennyboy4308 on 09-24-2004 04:40 PM

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09-24-2004 02:37 PM  

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/sigh....

Message Edited by Bennyboy4308 on 09-24-2004 04:39 PM

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09-24-2004 02:37 PM  

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Wow, first time I've EVER double posted...

Message Edited by Bennyboy4308 on 09-24-2004 04:39 PM

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09-24-2004 02:38 PM  

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Isn't that a TRIPPLE post....
 
 

Iebas Feania
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09-24-2004 02:40 PM  

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