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Carbineer Specials Info   [ Edited ]
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TAfirehawk
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Specials Description and Status
This information is based on the work done by Novamarine.
 
In GREEN are Specials the Community feels are working as intended. In RED are Specials that are not working as described.  In YELLOW are Specials that are working as intended yet are redundant in that another Carbineer Special does the same thing but better, faster or with more damage.  After a breakdown of the Specials is a Data Table of Speed, Damage and HAM Modifiers for the Specials.  This list is helpful to identify Specials that are the same as lower level versions (i.e. LegShot2 and LegShot3 are the same).  Following the Data Table is a Description of the Cone Effect/Multi-Target ability of some Specials.
 
 
Working Specials: 14
Broken Specials: 0
Redundant Specials: 1
 
 
 
Novice Carbineer
 
FullAutoSingle2 - Single Target - Random Pool damage with a chance to Stun, Dizzy and Blind.  Average damage with fast firing rate.  Please note while the chance to apply 3 states seems great, and it is, the chance to apply a state is lower as the target's level increases.
 
ActionShot2 - Cone Effect/Multi-Target - This Special applies an hit directed at the Action Pool followed by an Action Pool Bleed.  This Special has the chance to hit all targets already in Combat within the Cone for the Damage, Bleed, and Posture Down.
 
 
 
Carbine Assault Tactics
 
ScatterShot1 - Single Target - Selects two Random Pools, hits those and applies the damage evenly between the two pools.  Since the Pools are picked randomly, it can hit two different Pools or hit the same Pool twice.
 
WildShot1 - Single Target - Random pool damage with the chance to Stun.  The chance to Stun appears to be higher with WildShot1 vs. FullAutoSingle2 thus making this a valuable Special.
 
ScatterShot2 - Single Target - Selects three Random Pools, hits those and applies the damage evenly between the three Pools.  Since the Pools are picked randomly, it can hit three different Pools or hit the same Pool three times.  This special does a lot of damage but since the damage is often spread across multiple Pools it is often underestimated.
 
WildShot2 - Cone Effect/Multi-Target - Random Pool damage with the chance to Stun and the chance to hit all targets already in Combat within the Cone.  The chance to Stun appears to be higher with WildShot2 vs. FullAutoArea1/2 thus making this a valuable Special.
 
 
 
Carbine Marksmanship
 
LegShot3 - Single Target - Targets Action Pool specifically and has a chance to Stun.  Redundant: LegShot2 (Identical Modifiers).
 
CripplingShot - Single Target - Random Pool damage.  Slow firing but big damage.
 
 
 
Carbine Counterinsurgency
 
BurstShot1 - Single Target - Random Pool damage.  Medium damage with medium speed.  Relatively low HAM Cost make this Special a popular choice for the unbuffed Carbineer.
 
BurstShot2 - Cone Effect/Multi-Target - Random Pool damage and the chance to hit all targets already in Combat within the Cone.  Highest damage Cone Effect/Multi-Target Special.
 
SuppressionFire2 - Single Target - Random Pool damage with a chance to Posture Down.
 
 
Carbine Special Abilities
 
FullAutoArea1 - Cone Effect/Multi-Target - Random Pool damage with a chance to Stun, Dizzy and Blind all targets already in Combat within the Cone.  Please note while the chance to apply 3 States seems great, and it is, the chance to apply a State decreases with a target's increased difficulty level.
 
ChargeShot1 - Single Target - Random Pool damage and a chance to KnockDown target.  Character goes through a "charge" animation when firing that moves you 5m.  Cannot be used Prone or Kneeling.  The time a target spends KD is 5 seconds and the target has immunity to another KD of 30 seconds from the time KD first landed.
 
FullAutoArea2 - Cone Effect/Multi-Target - Random Pool damage with a chance to Stun, Dizzy and Blind all targets already in Combat within the Cone.  Higher damage than FullAutoArea1.  Please note while the chance to apply 3 States seems great, and it is, the chance to apply a State decreases with a target's increased difficulty level.
 
ChargeShot2 - Cone Effect/Multi-Target - Random Pool damage and a chance to KnockDown all targets already in Combat within the Cone.  Character goes through a "charge" animation when firing that moves you 5m.  Cannot be used Prone or Kneeling.
 
 
 
Specials Misc. Notes   ActionShot1&2, ChargeShot1&2 and SuppressionFire2 will stand a target back up from a KD or a Posture Changeanded.....so be warned that a KD or Posture Change will stand your target back up.
 
 

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 09-24-2004 12:53 PM

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 09-24-2004 12:54 PM

Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER
09-23-2004 12:42 PM  

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Re: Carbineer Specials Info   [ Edited ]
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TAfirehawk
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Specials Data Table
 
 
Special           Reload Modifier  Damage Modifier      HAM Modifier
 
FullAutoSingle2         1.7              5.5          2.1 / 2.7 / 0.6
BurstShot1              2.0              6.0          1.9 / 1.4 / 0.6
BurstShot2              2.5              6.0          2.1 / 1.4 / 0.6
ScatterShot1            2.0              5.0          1.9 / 1.4 / 0.6
Scattershot2            2.5              7.5          2.1 / 1.4 / 0.6
WildShot1               2.0              3.5          1.9 / 1.4 / 0.6
WildShot2               2.5              4.5          2.1 / 1.4 / 0.6
CripplingShot           2.5              7.5          1.1 / 2.4 / 1.1
FullAutoArea1           2.0              3.5          2.1 / 2.7 / 0.6
FullAutoArea2           2.5              4.5          2.6 / 2.7 / 0.6
LegShot2 (Marksman)     1.5              3.0          0.6 / 1.7 / 1.6
Legshot3                1.5              3.0          0.6 / 1.7 / 1.6
ChargeShot1             2.3              3.0          0.9 / 1.4 / 0.9
ChargeShot2             3.0              3.7          1.9 / 2.9 / 1.9
ActionShot1 (Marksman)  1.6              1.5          1.9 / 1.4 / 0.6
ActionShot2             1.7              3.0          2.1 / 1.4 / 0.6
SuppressionFire1        2.0              2.3
SuppressionFire2        2.8              3.7          2.1 / 1.4 / 0.6
OverChargeShot1 (Marks) 2.0              5.0
OverChargeShot2 (Marks) 2.0              5.3
ConfusionShot (BH)      2.3              4.5
FireKnockDown (BH)      2.0              3.8
UnderHandShot (BH)      1.5              4.5
SprayShot (BH)          2.5              6.0
 
 
Please note the Damage Modifier is defined as carbine X modifier = damage, where "carbine" is gotten from the Examine Window of the Carbine. Some other classes choose to report their numbers as weapon X 1.5 X modifier. To compare Carbine Specials to those, you must divide Carbine Damage Modifiers by 1.5 or multiply those other modifiers by 1.5.
 
This information was collected by novamarine and TAfirehawk.
 
 

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 10-17-2004 10:28 PM

Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER
09-23-2004 12:42 PM  

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Re: Carbineer Specials Info   [ Edited ]
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TAfirehawk
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Specials Cone Effect/Multi-Target Description
 
 
The Cone Effect/Multi-Target reference in the Specials Description and Status section is the ability for one Special fired by the Character to attack multiple targets within its range.  This has a CHANCE to hit all targets in this Cone, but each target reacts individually.  So this means some targets might get hit, some might miss, some will hit in different Pools, etc.
 
I tested the range of the Cone with my three accounts so I had complete control over the exact positioning of each character.  I placed the attacker and target in a straight line 40m apart and then moved the third character perpendicular to that line, thus creating a Right Triangle.  Using the Tangent of this Right Triangle I was able to position the third character exactly +/- 0.5m.
  
After testing 15, 20, 17.5, and 16 degree angles, I found that 15 degrees worked while the others did not.  I tested this with FullAutoArea2, BurstShot2, ChargeShot2, ActionShot2 and WildShot2.  This means all Cone Effect/Multi-Target Specials for Carbineer affect within an angle of 30 degrees.
 
So lets look at some distances away from a target you can be and hit another target on either side:
 
60m to target will hit 16.0m either side
40m to target will hit 10.7m either side
30m to target will hit 8.0m either side
20m to target will hit 5.4m either side
10m to target will hit 2.7m either side
 
 

Message Edited by TAfirehawk on 09-23-2004 04:01 PM

Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER
09-23-2004 12:42 PM  

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TAfirehawk
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Reserved for future expansion.
 
 

Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER
09-23-2004 12:43 PM  

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Titan2000
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Great work
 
Was a former carbineer many months ago miss all those specials and area state attacks. This post makes me want to be carbineer again.



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09-23-2004 01:37 PM  

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wilibus
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Looks great and very familar kinda curious how much of this is going to change after the balance though.
 
One issue i noticed though, at 1024x768 the formatting pushes the HAM modifiers to the second line

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Avaris Eislen | Procurer of Combat Fashions | Kintan, Naboo
09-23-2004 01:49 PM  

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AntillesWing
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Nice work TA

Official Carbineer Motto "I bet I can kill me before you can kill me"
Tece Daspi-Ahazi
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09-23-2004 02:05 PM  

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TAfirehawk
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wilibus wrote:
Looks great and very familar kinda curious how much of this is going to change after the balance though.
 
One issue i noticed though, at 1024x768 the formatting pushes the HAM modifiers to the second line


I was at 1280x1024....let me shrink the text a bit and let me know if that works.....
 
 

Iebas Feania
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09-23-2004 02:48 PM  

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Bennyboy4308
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Suppressionfire2 is kinda redundant. True some people don't have 1, but it really should have some advantage.

~Enaw~  [PV/XF Da 800g3ym@n] <Rebel emO FactKr>
09-23-2004 07:14 PM  

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TAfirehawk
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Bennyboy4308 wrote:
Suppressionfire2 is kinda redundant. True some people don't have 1, but it really should have some advantage.


I really struggled with SuppressionFire2 along with WildShot1/2.  But my first question is do we really have proof that the % chance to PD is equal to SF1?  Secondly, SuppressionFire2 is not specifically required for Master Carbineer.  If SF2 were to be considered redundant, then you would also have to consider ChargeShot1 redundant next to FireKnockDown.....but I don't think we want to start down that road.

With recent reports, I feel WildShot1/2 needed to be taken off the Redundant List because of the higher chance at Stun.  The increased chance of Stun becomes important with the reports of easier application of KD, PD, and other States.  So I felt it necessary to recognize these recent findings and bring to light that WildShot1/2 should be considered useful attacks to be explored by each person.

 

Iebas Feania
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09-23-2004 08:21 PM  

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Chiro
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Hmm...
 
Working Specials: 14
Broken Specials: 0
 
How often do you PvP as a carbineer?
 
Good work on the stats by the way.
09-24-2004 12:31 AM  

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TAfirehawk
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Chiro wrote:
Hmm...
 
Working Specials: 14
Broken Specials: 0
 
How often do you PvP as a carbineer?
 
Good work on the stats by the way.


Anybody that can give me PROOF of a BROKEN Special that I can reproduce on Chilastra or TC or SpaceBeta1 and I will gladly update this and take it to the Corr Forum.  Just because there are problems PvP'ing does not mean Carbineer is broken.....why do you think we have a COMBAT BALANCE coming.

And expect me to be very defensive when people make such attacks on me personally.  As Carbineer Correspondent I am held to "higher standards" in posting because I am the Community Leader here, but don't ever expect me to get walked all over by anybody except a name in RED.  There is a proper way to have an adult conversation and discussion.....but this is NOT the way to start it off.  The insinuation that I don't PvP is quite offensive and like saying I don't know my arse from a whole in the ground.  If you wish to rephrase your reply and offer up some PROOF of broken Specials, then please do that and I would be happy to discuss it with you or anybody else....

I am not the expert PvP'er like Addy, but I do enough to know Carbineer forwards, backwards, sideways, up and down.

 

And if I have misread your reply and flown off the handle without reason, then I am sorry.....but I am very passionate about Carbineer and take this very seriously.

 

Iebas Feania
Former Correspondent of the Former Profession, CARBINEER
09-24-2004 06:05 AM  

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Halendor
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The specials are now sorted by skill tree, but once you have them all, that's no longer important. Here's an alternative:
 
Single target
Random pool damage
Cripplingshot (highest damage)
Burstshot1 (medium damage, low HAM cost)
Scattershot1
Scattershot2
 
States
Wildshot1 (stun)
Fullautosingle2 (stun, dizzy, blind)
Legshot3 (stun, hits action pool)
 
Knockdowns / Posture down
Chargeshot1 (knockdown)
Supressionfire2 (posturedown)
 
Cone effect / Multi-target
Random pool damage
Burstshot2 (highest damage)
 
States
Wildshot2 (stun)
Fullautoarea2 (stun, dizzy blind)
Fullautoarea1 (stun, dizzy, blind)
 
Knockdown / Posture down
Chargeshot2 (knockdown)
Actionshot2 (posturedown, action bleed)

Raek Kre'mos (Eclipse)
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09-24-2004 06:59 AM  

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JanuHull
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SuppressionFire1 is a special case, since its usable with any weapon, so its not a "Carbine" special in the sense that SuppressionFire2 is.
 
I suppose this would also raise the spector of the effects of WarningShot and the other Marksman Support specials.

Janu Hull
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09-24-2004 07:12 AM  

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AdmiralSpy
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Chiro wrote:
Hmm...
 
Working Specials: 14
Broken Specials: 0
 
How often do you PvP as a carbineer?
 
Good work on the stats by the way.

It all depends on your definition of "broken".. and this is where the "I want to be the best" arguement also comes in.

Technically, not a single special is broken in the sense that it does not do what is intended of it.  All KD moves do have a chance of KDing.. same with all state specials and damage specials.  Only the LegShot2/3 situation is a bit iffy semantically.. but this is where Firehawk states that it is redundant, so that's good.

That's all this document suggests.  We are not comparing the actual "broken state of Carbineer" PvP-wise.. we're only looking at the raw damage multipliers and effects of specials.

As far as how "broken" the Carbineer profession is in relation to its specials is a matter of opinion.  Personally, I think we are exactly where we should be.  Pistoleers are a bit low on the damage side, and Riflemen.. well, they speak for themselves.  And I can see where you're coming from, too.  Pistoleer used to be one of the best professions in PvP if coupled with the BH or Smuggler lines.  This has changed, though.

Yes, we could use a bit of generosity in terms of raw damage and state-inducing effectiveness (most specials against defense stackers aren't all that useful), but to say these moves are broken, I think, is pushing it too far.

And for the record, I've PvPd as a Carbineer for over 8 months now, and while I choose to remain unguilded for personal (and RP, I guess) reasons, I grouped up almost every day with the best PvP guild on my server (TS and all).  I think we were up to 3 Carbineers out of a team of 12-15.. simply because we see the sheer value of this profession.

Solo though, we're not nearly as effective.  But who wants to be a loner?

Prove to me that one of our specials is indeed broken and I will forever deem you my new God, heh.

Message Edited by AdmiralSpy on 09-24-2004 11:36 AM

Addy | 'Addy
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09-24-2004 08:34 AM  

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