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State of the Armorsmith Profession
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JaatoWaals
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JaatoWaals
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Here is the new state of the armorsmith profession. I welcome any suggestions, especially in the area of additional confirmed or suspected bugs.

 

State of the Armorsmith Profession 4/30/04

The armorsmith profession, overall, is in a period of prosperity. Players have come to recognize the value of armor and, although not everyone understands how it works perfectly, most players choose to wear armor at some point during their careers. Two major bugs- the "armor hole" and the vulnerability shift experienced by certain types of armor- were fixed in Publish 8, adding to the effectiveness of armor.

Economically, most master armorsmiths are very well off. High-level composite continues to be heavily sought after and fetches a fairly high price. There continues to be concern about the viability of lower level armor and armorsmiths, however, and of the difficulty faced by a new player choosing to be an armorsmith. The biggest problem facing a new armorsmith is the limited number of experimentation points at any level other than master, meaning that a master armorsmith can make the same products as a novice, but with a much higher quality. Thus, masters dominate both the high-end armor market (composite and ubese) and the lower end armor market (mabari, chitin, etc.).

Variation among armors continues to grow. Three new types of armors designed expressly for wookies are being developed and one has already gone in. Likewise, a questable armor schematic, RIS, has also entered a game. While there are issues with the availability of one of the key components of RIS, the Giant Dune Kimogila scale, it has nevertheless increased the variety of armors. Finally, one of the elements that the Developers have mentioned as part of the Galactic Civil War revamp is craftable faction armor, something that armorsmiths have been seeking since the game launched.

That said, armorsmiths continue to be concerned about the effective variation among armors. The relative uselessness of most armor types compared to composite and ubese is a major issue. As a whole, armorsmiths would like to see more true variation among armor types, rather than simply a scale from low end to high end. The biggest issue with this type of scale is that resource costs do not scale with armor quality. Thus, high end armors require the same quantities of resources as low end armor. In particular, the organic component requirement, which is the primary resource cost driving armor prices, does not seem to be related to the benefits provide by the armor. One example is Tantel as compared to Advanced Composite. Advanced composite requires only a modest amount of wooly hides, while Tantel, which provides much less protection, requires a large amount of bristley hides, a modest amount of any hide, and avian bones, which are very difficult to acquire in any quantity. As a result, little Tantel is made because it provides less protection, yet costs more to make, than composite.

As a whole, however, armorsmiths are in good shape. There continue to be small bugs that plague the profession, but by and large everything works. There are rumors of major changes in the works for how armor works under the new system that will be coming into play when the combat rebalance is finished, but until the rebalance hits public testing we will not know how armor will fit into the new paradigm.

Technical Bugs

Experimentation irregularities- There are a variety of irregularities in the experimentation process. For instance, the way composite is experimented seems to be different from how other armors are experimented. Along the same lines, experimenting encumbrance costs on segments seems to be acting strangely.

Mabari special protection irregularities- Mabari has two special protections (heat and blast), but only heat can be raised on the chest and only blast can be raised on the legs. Moreover, the segments contain only a heat special resist.

Composite pants missing a colorable area- The thigh portion of the composite pants cannot be changed from gray, even when a different color is chosen for the armor.

Glove/bracer irregularities- some glove/bracer combinations are impermissible, even though the graphics for those items appear as 'hand only.' In particular, chitin gloves, while appearing small, cannot be worn with bracers.

Suspected Technical Bugs

AP weapons ignoring PSG's entirely- There are reports that AP weapons ignore the effects of PSG's entirely.

PSG's still not working 100% of the time- There are still occasional reports that PSG's are not working all the time.

Armor not stacking with synthsteak- It is unclear exactly what is going on here.

Some looted segments not working properly- The latest reports deal with Fambaa segments not being usable in padded armor.

 

Non-technical issues

Looted armor segments are generally useless- Most looted segments contain base statistics that are lower than those crafted by a novice armorsmith with only one experimentation point. As a result, they are essentially useless. The looted segment table should be reviewed and particular segments should be modified.

Wishlist

Dual condition shields- These would be Personal Shield Generators with two conditions: a maximum condition and a temporary condition. The temporary condition would slowly recharge over time and would deplete at the same rate that PSG's currently degenerate. The permanent condition would degenerate at a much slower (1/10th or less) rate.

Experimentation range for encumbrance is too small- the trade off for experimenting encumbrance versus resistances is weighed heavily in favor of experimenting resistances, because the benefits from experimenting encumbrances are much smaller than for experimenting resistances. The benefits for experimenting encumbrance on all armor types should be increased.

Increase Giant Dune Kimo scale drop rate- The drop rate for GDK scales is vastly lower than that for the other RIS components.  It seems to be in the neighborhood of 1/20 or lower. Given that the GDK is by far the hardest of the four creatures to kill, it seems counterintuitive that it should also have the lowest drop rate.

Armor powerups- Some kind of modification, similar to the one in place for weapons, would add a bit more variation to armor.

More questable armor schematics- RIS was a great idea, even if the quest items were a bit on the unobtainable side. The PSG quest is a bit too easy, although the fact that it is a limited schematic makes up for this. Armorsmiths would really welcome a questable armor schematic that did not require looted components to make, or only required a one time acquisition of a looted component.

Real shields- Either energy or physical shields would make a good addition to the game.

Pet/mount armor

Visual effect for PSG's- When shield generators are active in the movies there is a very clear visual effect. This would add a strong immersion element to the game.

Sound effects associated with armor- Heavy breathing or altered impact noises are two possibilities

Grant more experimentation points to low level smiths when crafting low level armors- Currently, it is difficult for low level smiths to compete with master armorsmiths at all because they suffer a double penalty- not only can they not make the high level armors, but the low level armors that they can make are inferior to those made by a master smith. Even a smith with Techniques IV has only 7 experimentation points- three fewer than a master armorsmith and five fewer than most established masters. One possibility would be to simply give armorsmiths with Tech IV +80 to experimentation rather than +75, thus giving them 8 experimentation points. Another alternative would be to grant them a higher number of experimentation points for use on low level armors but decreasing the higher the armor is.

Waals Industries

-Armor for the new Imperium-

www.hrafnwarband.org
04-30-2004 12:15 PM  

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Re: State of the Armorsmith Profession
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royalewitcheez
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royalewitcheez

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I want to have your children.

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04-30-2004 12:48 PM  

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Re: State of the Armorsmith Profession
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bradimere
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one thing that isnt mentioned that i think should be is.
 
1) armor repair : there is a severe failure rate on repairing armor even while being a Master Armorsmith using 99.7% repair kits.
04-30-2004 02:12 PM  

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Re: State of the Armorsmith Profession
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JaatoWaals
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JaatoWaals
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Good point. I'll put something in about armor repair rates.

'fraid I'm already taken.

Waals Industries

-Armor for the new Imperium-

www.hrafnwarband.org
04-30-2004 02:20 PM  

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Re: State of the Armorsmith Profession
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BaronJedi
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Good post. I just hope you Armorsmiths realize what a large effect you have on this game and the "Star Warsiness". It is really important that armorsmiths bring up issues such as the lack in effectiveness of all but two armors. Only one in PvP.

I think everybody is tired of RoboCop Online.


Draxx Py're | Master Rifleman | Master Squad Leader

)D(ark )F(orce )R(ising
04-30-2004 02:30 PM  

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Re: State of the Armorsmith Profession
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ChryssSR
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It would be nice if they could give us a difinitive answer as to if master crafters get bonuses on repairs.

Also, any word on what's the deal with NS shards?  The prior patch most of my shards lost their health encumbrance reduction but now they are dropping with the health encumbrance again.  The shards with the health encumbrance showing are actually reducing the health encumbrance on segment.  Naturally, the shards missing the health encumbrance are not affecting the health encumbrance on crafted segments.  Are they aware of this and if so is there any plan to have the health encumbrance show on the old shards again?  (A lot of the ones I have without the health encumbrance originally had it but lost it when they fixed the display issue with health encumbrance on layers and segments).

Chr'yss Ta'baal
Master Heavy Swordsman/Master Armorsmith
04-30-2004 02:31 PM  

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Re: State of the Armorsmith Profession
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Ainwyn
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Thus, high end armors require the same quantities of resources as low end armor. In particular, the organic component requirement, which is the primary resource cost driving armor prices, does not seem to be related to the benefits provide by the armor.





In a way, it's rather fitting that the "lower" armors be more creature based, i.e. primative, so that's not really the core of the problem The problem is the -cost- of creature resources. and the only reason creature resources are more expensive is because of the player economy (which is actually a good thing). Mined stuff is easier to get so it is priced lower. The droids which give a bonus to harvest -might- help the costs. Getting behind rangers and supporting a push for rangers to have an increased (or even double, as in 2 passes) of harvest would be another way to lower the costs -and- support another profession. Pushing to get a "creature mine" which would negate the purpose of a profession (not advocated in Jaato's post but a suggestion seen from time to time in this forum and others) doesn't exactly help anything.




Looted armor segments are generally useless- Most looted segments contain base statistics that are lower than those crafted by a novice armorsmith with only one experimentation point. As a result, they are essentially useless. The looted segment table should be reviewed and particular segments should be modified.





Most definately! Heck even the looted layers aren't any increase on base from crafted ones (yes, they are a reduced encumbrance and that -is- nice, but they really could be better).




Experimentation range for encumbrance is too small- the trade off for experimenting encumbrance versus resistances is weighed heavily in favor of experimenting resistances, because the benefits from experimenting encumbrances are much smaller than for experimenting resistances. The benefits for experimenting encumbrance on all armor types should be increased.





YES!! There really does need to be a greater trade-off on encumbrance vs resist to make it worth having and not just considered for slicing. If slicing is supposed to be an illegal trade, there should be a way to have non-sliced "compete" or else everyone is participating in the illegalities.


Jaato, I am so very glad you are our corospondent, you really do seem to have your "finger on the pulse".

I would, however, add one more to the wishlist. I want to see a crafter's apron (or the like) for armorsmithing (and BE, the other forgotten one) as well as an increased prevalence of skill tapes for AS experimentation. From drops we (my partner, friends, and I) have gotten and from watching sales somewhat, I am of the opinion the AS tapes are the rarest of all tapes. Both of these would also provide a way to help non-master smiths, too. You can get experimentation items before you are a master to give you higher experimentation rates.

Tess (Ainwyn) Dle'kkar
12 point, RIS certified, Master Armorsmith
Wild Side Armor
Rogues Landing, Corellia (4404,2619)
Kettemoor
http://www.rogueslanding.com/wildside/
04-30-2004 03:18 PM  

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Re: State of the Armorsmith Profession
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JaatoWaals
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JaatoWaals
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I have seen a lot of people asking for an armorsmith crafter's apron and I will put it on our new top five list.

Waals Industries

-Armor for the new Imperium-

www.hrafnwarband.org
04-30-2004 05:53 PM  

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Re: State of the Armorsmith Profession
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Okram2k
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A very big kudos to you, summed up all of our discussions of the month quite well.

dddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
Oa'kron of Tempest
Retired Armorsmith, Architect, Merchant, and RSF Pilot!
Armorsmith Correspondant: November 2004 - April 2005.
Revolutionary: April 2005 - Present.
" So instead of sticking to the thing that our players really love, we start changing it. And now we're alienating the players playing our game, losing our subscribers."
- Jeff Hickman
04-30-2004 06:43 PM  

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DreadWind
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Increase Giant Dune Kimo scale drop rate- The drop rate for GDK scales is vastly lower than that for the other RIS components.  It seems to be in the neighborhood of 1/20 or lower. Given that the GDK is by far the hardest of the four creatures to kill, it seems counterintuitive that it should also have the lowest drop rate.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Please DO NOT INCREASE the drop rate of GDK Scale!  It supose to be a hard earn piece of armor and if you are going to increase the drop rate then you mind as well tell the devs to make them craftable by armorsmith with just resources and no loot parts needed.
 
I don't like it one bit because I work hard on kiling these things for weeks and months to get my hands on a few and if you are going to increase it then this armor can no longer be called RARE!

=[Ruination]=
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05-01-2004 04:25 AM  

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MasterNerfSlayer
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Spot on Jaato. Good shoow


RETIRED DOCTOR & MEDIC CORRESPONDENT
Imperial Colonel Kiveryn [Commando / Carbineer] Starsider [Black Epsilon]
Imperial Leiutenant Kirrilee [Dark Jedi Knight] Starsider [Imperial Inquisition]

Unlocked April 1st, 2004
05-01-2004 05:31 AM  

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Re: State of the Armorsmith Profession
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MrMud
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If they increased the GDK droprate and removed stun as a vulnerability we might actually see RIS used in combat like armor should be instead of as a showpiece for the filthy rich.

Seltak
(Retired) Master Armorsmith with 12 Experiemental points, RIS capable
Seltak Armor - Coronet - Corellia (625 -5113), EFF Fortress Mall - Fortress - Lok ( -2186 -3778)
Buying Giant Dune Kimogila Scales - Price negotiable
Brissa
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05-01-2004 07:55 AM  

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Re: State of the Armorsmith Profession
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Hawk1138
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I'd like to see an end to the camping at the bat cave so some of us could be as filthy rich as MrMud. Or find some way of making those experimentation points available in another form.

 

 

 

Hawk

Hawk
05-01-2004 09:18 AM  

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Re: State of the Armorsmith Profession   [ Edited ]
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NinjasLovePirates
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JaatoWaals wrote:

Suspected Technical Bugs

AP weapons ignoring PSG's entirely- There are reports that AP weapons ignore the effects of PSG's entirely.

PSG's still not working 100% of the time- There are still occasional reports that PSG's are not working all the time.


To my understanding, PSGs were never intended to give ANY protection VS an armor piercing weapon. If the weapon pierces through the shield layer, then you lose it's normal resists as well as the AR bonus VS an AP0 attack. I'm not sure if an AP2+ attack would gain the +25% damage bonus twice though (+25% through shield, then the total damage going up another +25% through the armor).

I would like to add something though...

I hear that Using AP weapons VS players without armor does not grant the +25% damage bonus. This actually makes it MORE damaging to wear Mabari VS a Republic Blaster than wearing nothing at all VS that same RB... I think that a vuln in armor should be treated as wearing no armor, and such, firing an AP weapon upon a naked target should get the +25% damage bonus per level of AP.

I think that AS is a great profession, especially now with the fixes. We used to have 8 armors, 1 in Artisan, 2 Bugged, and 3 no on wanted for Encumb or gated resist reasons leaving us with Composite and Ubese and only at Master AS. We now have another two armors we can make along with PSGs, but RIS seems a bit out there and Tantel only has three pieces (and no Adv)... So now that the armor is FINALLY fixed (it only took them about a year), they're doing the combat revamp! My hopes for that are balancing all armor so that the low-end armors have a place on the battlefield as well as the money makers.

Nice summary of the State of the AS Profession, and please do add the Repair issue (maybe there should be an Armor Repair skill that increases in the Tech branch).

[edit] PS - We need an apron because I think the tapes are pretty rare for AS... I haven't found 1 Exp tape, nor have I seen many for sale... I think that a +5 exp Apron would help out the Tech IV smiths so they could use 8 points for low-end armors until Master as well as help masters get that much closer to 12 points.

Message Edited by NinjasLovePirates on 05-01-2004 11:23 AM

Rick Maher
Master Armorsmith, Master Smuggler
"Uh... had a slight weapons malfunction. But, uh, everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here, now, thank you. How are you?"
~Han Solo proving that Smugglers are the masters of talking their way out of a problem.

05-01-2004 09:18 AM  

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bullitt3
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thank you jaato for all the time and work you put into helping our profession

 

id have to agree with all the major points made in your post. i do have a problem with one of the responses concerning the drop rate for gdk scales. the argument that the drop rate should not be increased is always the same from the same people, the 'weve been slaving away for weeks and months to get these scales and now that we have them you should have to do the same work we did' argument makes my point completely-that 99.9% of people do not have weeks and months to sit there killing these things. is ris supposed to be armor? because right now its not-its just some quest that is equivalent to obtaining a bantha statue-all it does is sit around. the point is that I HAVE NEVER SEEN A SINGLE PIECE OF RIS ARMOR. i mean never- not a helmet, not anything. not even in someones house as a display.

apparently ris armor can be crafted to be better than composite in some ways but i guess it is usually not enough of a gain over good composite to take a chance that it could decay. it simply doesnt make any sense to have something that is supposed to be a difficult quest for ARMOR turn out to be an almost impossible quest for a museum piece. if ris had the same or close to same resists as composite but with half the encumbrance this would be infinitely better.

the fact that they put a picture of a someone wearing ris armor while fighting in the corellian corvette picture makes it even more ridiculous. forget about the gdk scale-now isnt the rest of what you need to get enough of a challenge to equate to the prize you are seeking? peko peko albatross' arent exactly easy to kill when you can find one and although the drop rate is good on these its still possible to have trouble getting the feather. how about those campers that pop up to snag your woolamander hide or gurk king bone? thats always fun. poof-they appear out of thin air just at the right time after youve been waiting for an hour. again, even when you do kill one yourself its no guarantee of getting the loot you want.

the point is that this is supposed to be a difficult, rare, and high quality armor and it turns out after all these months that its next to impossible, next to non-existent, and not as high quality as it was meant to be. why not have a some more suits of ris on each server. if ive never seen ris in game or heard an offer from someone selling ris in game or on the auction forum this is too far. its as simple as that. 

what is the point of having this armor as it is now? there is none because its not protecting anyone from anything.  there is no other side to this argument.  

starkat

05-01-2004 11:13 AM  

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